Slaying vs "of penetration"

[JellySlayer]

I'd be tempted to report that as a bug.

[YourMum]

Really, though, you should just use slaying ammo

P.S. most of the time, balors are slower than end-game heros [when you consider energy reduction from weapon marks, speed, etc.]. This means you can use Vanquisher w/o repercussion as long as you time things correctly and don't get surrounded.

I pick up every bundle of about 4 or more arrows or quarrels and most my slaying ammo is only good against jellies!

I think corruption is what I'm worried about the most as I already have a few and only 8 scrolls left. Getting in a extra hit or 2 before the balor sounds good

[Jursk]

I

I think corruption is what I'm worried about the most as I already have a few and only 8 scrolls left.

That many should be more than enough if you do a regular run. 8 scrolls for a single game is a lot.

[SirTheta]

Agreed, 8 scrolls is a ridiculous amount. Just be sure to ONLY clear corruptions that are very harmful - mana battery, stiff muscles, flesh-ridden maggots, flesh requires a lot of willpower to keep up. You'll be fine.

[sylph]

I'd be tempted to report that as a bug.

No! Don't! It's not a bug. There are static damage mechanics on weapons (anything like devastation, +dmg, fire, etc), and there are effects that also enhance your natural abilities (slaying, +crit). Changing these mechanics would just make everything into a static damage mechanic, which reduces variety and tactical choice. Furthermore, it nerfs characters with stronger natural combat abilties, meaning it's a nerf to melee fighters. I think wizards are already far enough ahead*, aren't they?

*judging by the character choices in the recent competition)


Regarding this thread - remember that phase daggers don't work the same as penetration. Penetration weapons ignore the enemy PV. Phase daggers increase their base damage by the enemy PV.
This means that when you use a blessed phase dagger against a demon (like a balor) with 40pv, the phase dagger get's +40dmg, which is then multiplied by 1.5 for being a blessed weapon against a demon, for a total of +60dmg. That is, blessed phase daggers actually turn armour against the target, not just ignore it, against demons and undead.
I wouldn't be surprised if it works the same for crits, but I can't be bothered to do the research!

[SirTheta]

wait, is that really how phase daggers work?

[grobblewobble]

This means that when you use a blessed phase dagger against a demon (like a balor) with 40pv, the phase dagger get's +40dmg, which is then multiplied by 1.5 for being a blessed weapon against a demon, for a total of +60dmg. That is, blessed phase daggers actually turn armour against the target, not just ignore it, against demons and undead.

Did you test this? I'm very surprised, that would work out sort of.. amazing against the emperor moloch. Imagine a critical backstab..

[sylph]

Did you test this? I'm very surprised, that would work out sort of.. amazing against the emperor moloch. Imagine a critical backstab..

I didn't! I read it here:
http://adom.brinkster.net/forum/mess...ge=1&tmp=61247
But I'd read it previously on RGRA, so I assume it's been tested plenty.

[Mobius]

I didn't! I read it here:
http://adom.brinkster.net/forum/mess...ge=1&tmp=61247
But I'd read it previously on RGRA, so I assume it's been tested plenty.

Are you going to talk, or complete your mission?

ob. adom: when fighting the Emperor Moloch, I've been more impressed with damage from ThunderStroke than slaying ammo. When it scores a crit, it's quite impressive.

[Soirana]

I didn't! I read it here:
http://adom.brinkster.net/forum/mess...ge=1&tmp=61247
But I'd read it previously on RGRA, so I assume it's been tested plenty.

Don't remember Malte writing ever about phase daggers and certainly that part is not cited. If he did write something about phase daggers I would like to read.

From my book of black knowledge [which generally means ADOM 1.1.1>> Adombot to generate wishes >> wishes to generate genuine stuff to experiment on>>doing some far fetched ideas>> writing them down in ugly letters] phase daggers are bugged. Or have interesting features if you like that attitude.

Uncursed ones do not add anything extra.
Blessed ones against demons [and molochs/balors are primary targets of phase dagger] they do not give classical 1.5 damage multiplier instead adding half monster PV. Crits do multiply whole thing so can end being spectacular.
Blessed ones against other stuff [I think test was againt ogre emperors - tough to say due to ugly handwriting] do not add extra PV based damage.
Well again it is tough to guarantee since there is not much of non demon stethoscopable mobs with high PV to work with.
[Crits with uncursed and blessed had some problems I could not track down - generally speaking good problems as damage was sometimes getting boosts]

Well, again it is my interpretation on some sketchy numbers. If you have data proving me wrong I would like to hear it.

Or we can discuss what are chances to picpocket really good stuff from dragons. Later would be more in the spirit of this community I guess.