Some thoughts about prerelease 21

[sylph]

I will look into it. Stealth at some point appeared too powerful to me, almost like permanent invisibility without the disadvantages. More thoughts about this?

I like the difference that showing monster hostility (the border around their healthbar) makes for backstabbing with an assassin! Really made the class more enjoyable for me!
However, I think even if stealth had a 100% success rate (and I feel there should be a way to have 100% reliable stealth, perhaps requiring a player to take the stealthy talent, 100 stealth, and remove boots and armour for the whole 100%), even with 100% stealth, though, you only have to attack a single monster to have a whole room notice you and attack... It's not really that powerful, especially considering it's taking investment in skills, talents, and itemisation. You can get the same effect by drinking from pools, finding a ring or cloak of invisibility, or (as usual) just being a spellcaster. If all casters get infinite access to perfect invisibility, don't you feel it's only right that an assassin or a thief should get equally strong stealth?

[asdf]

100 Stealth was really powerful, and perhaps should be toned down a bit. But restoring old 100 Stealth behavior by taking 'Stealthy' talent in addition to the 100 Stealth looks good for me. After all, usually only initially stealthy classes could get 100 Stealth, so its not really broken after all.

[asdf]

I'm really looking forward to your comments about summoners in p22. There all fixes I deemed necessary have been applied and I hope that they overall will work much better.

They still fill the room in matter of turns. They still create living swarms to overwhelm you in open spaces. Except for summons dropping loot again, they are not really changed. Early game summoners sould be slapped with a nerfstick _hard_, perhaps 2-3 summoned monsters and no more then 2-3 summon attempts per summoner (giving 4-9 summoned creatures), then _long_ wait.

[Stingray1]

Stealth in p21 was still pretty powerful. Wanting it to sneak past the Golems in Darkforge is just making Darkforge as easy to rob as before only this time you don't need specific items. Before p21 you could even walk through the Graveyard in CoC unnoticed mostly.

[Blasphemous]

Perhaps there should be middle ground for stealth then. Right now (p21) I feel like it's underwhelming while in p20, it was a bit op.
I like asdf's suggestion that stealth alone as a skill should behave like it does in p21 but once you take stealthy talent and reach 100 in stealth, it should work as in p20.
That would be fair I think and stealth serves well until first blood is drawn, then things know you're there. It's not too powerful I think.

[SirTheta]

Stealth in p21 was still pretty powerful. Wanting it to sneak past the Golems in Darkforge is just making Darkforge as easy to rob as before only this time you don't need specific items. Before p21 you could even walk through the Graveyard in CoC unnoticed mostly.

Please tell me how you managed to rob DFG relying only on stealth. I have visited old DFG a number of times with 100 Stealth + Stealthy in p20 and I know it is not possible and not at all as easy as with controlled TP in 1.1.1.

[YourMum]

Stealth at some point appeared too powerful to me, almost like permanent invisibility without the disadvantages. More thoughts about this?

I think this fits with a few characters though, as mentioned assassins and thieves, but i always thought mindcrafters too, in a sort of Obi-Wan "these aren't the droids you're looking for" way, walking past monsters by making them think you're not there using your mindcrafty powers. For a lot of R/C combos it's not one of the easiest skills to max out as you quickly get rubbish dice, unless you're willing to go through the trouble of joining the thieves guild to give Yergius lots of money for training.

[sylph]

I love the current effect on the weight of your boots with stealth checks. I'd like to see that combined with an effect from a character's armour (so wearing 'rogue' light armour gives full stealth, maybe anything less than 200s gives full stealth skill?), and I'd also like to see an instant failure to stealth in a large (massive) radius if a character casts a spell. This would still allow the reliable stealth mechanics that we have access to, but would require a compromise that makes the player have to choose a stealth approach, rather than just getting it for free.

[Stingray1]

Please tell me how you managed to rob DFG relying only on stealth. I have visited old DFG a number of times with 100 Stealth + Stealthy in p20 and I know it is not possible and not at all as easy as with controlled TP in 1.1.1.

I never had Stealth at 100 when raiding Darkforge, not that I recall anyway. Blasphemous said he used to be able to.

10) Stealth has been significantly nerfed and I don't exactly like that. I used to be able to sneak past the steel golems in DfG if I had 100 stealth and stealthy talent but now, they are much more likely to notice me.

[SirTheta]

I never had Stealth at 100 when raiding Darkforge, not that I recall anyway. Blasphemous said he used to be able to.

That's not what that says. In p20, you could sneak by the first corridor of golems mostly easily. You can sneak by the 8 guarding Kherab's room decently (easily derailed by traps, though). But it is impossible to sneak by the steel golems guarding the weapon / armor rooms - they block the way. In addition, there are monsters inside you have to fight. It entails significant risk and is nowhere close to 1.1.1 where you could just TP in and out with _zero_ risk.