Writhing Mass of Primal Chaos in First Dungeon, Really?

[Whiskiz]

So i haven't got past 3rd dungeon or so, new to the game.

Im playing probably my 5th attempt ever, and in the dungeon Jharod is in, the first one SE of the first town, i found a writhing mass of primal chaos....

Because im a naturally healing from star sign troll with natural healing it takes a bit to kill me but that's fine, cause it got like 10-15 turns in before i could, i just kept reading and reading unable to do anything until it finally killed me, in one turn with 10-15 actions, even though i also got the speed traits at the start...

Da f is this s**t.

Time before this im a squishy mist elementalist and get "sickness" in the same dungeon second level from a rat so it rapes me before long and i die almost instantly even with the healing skill.

Glad i decided to wait to see if i should donate or not, its pretty clear now....

(Being at the very start of the game and first dungeon i obviously was not cursed or doomed or had bad luck in general or anything, FYI)

[_Ln_]

You should pay close attention to messages generated by the game. If you get some experience with the game, you will learn what things to avoid/prevent. The situation with a wompc actually happens very rarely, so you got unlucky.

Mist elven spellcasters is something you shouldn't touch for a while as a new player. Their life expectancy even among experienced players is quite low because of how traps in ADOM work.

Your call, but being unable to keep a character alive is pretty much the norm in ADOM.

[Whiskiz]

Fuck me dead, again, no joke. Another fucking writhing mass of primal chaos in the first dungeon 2nd or 3rd floor, the very next game.

"You should pay close attention to messages generated by the game"

What is that going to do for me when there's a wmopc bee-lining straight for me, especially right at the start and it is between me and getting out of the cave (not that id want to leave the cave anyway cause its meant to be that damn starter cave where you start, level and gear an shit supposedly.)

"Mist elven spellcasters is something you shouldn't touch for a while as a new player. Their life expectancy even among experienced players is quite low because of how traps in ADOM work."

Duly noted, thanks.

"Your call, but being unable to keep a character alive is pretty much the norm in ADOM."

Is it the norm to have im guessing an end game monster in a starter cave for instant death 2 times in a row? Im all for difficulty etc but not when you die from spastic RnG, instead from making a mistake or not being skilled enough.

I'm guessing not to bother with this stupid game, i think its bad now, id be fuckin pissed if it happened half way through, all the gear levels quests etc i had earned or passed, the progress i made only to die instantly, regardless of what i do, regardless of my skill or lackthereof, tactics i used whether i made a mistake or not etc, from the game just declaring i die there an then, because RnG.

That's just stupid (and no that's not proper roguelike) and very poor development in my honest opinion.....

[grobblewobble]

What happened here is that a monster was triggering a corruption trap repeatedly. If a monster triggers a corruption trap too many times, it is transformed into a WMoPC. The game warns you of it with the messages "You suddenly sense taint in your vicinity." and "You sense a soul in agony.". This is what _Ln_ meant. When you read these messages, you normally still have time to leave the level ASAP, before the monster is transformed.

[anon123]

On the flip side, early WMoPCs are a good source of experience if you manage to kill them before they kill you - which is doable with one or two bolts.

[Blasphemous]

Frankly, I think corruption traps should be removed from some levels and given a higher DL to only appear later in the game.
I've had cat lord get turned into a wmopc, my only luck was that I killed cats before so I wouldn't get the ring anyway but it's perfectly possible to get cat lord screwed up like this because of a random corruption trap.
Perhaps the way those traps work could be change to make it impossible to turn a monster into wmopc in VD/DD/PC, no matter how many times it activates the trap.
That way you avoid ridiculous situations like the original poster's.

[_Ln_]

Is it the norm to have im guessing an end game monster in a starter cave for instant death 2 times in a row? Im all for difficulty etc but not when you die from spastic RnG, instead from making a mistake or not being skilled enough.

I'm guessing not to bother with this stupid game, i think its bad now, id be fuckin pissed if it happened half way through, all the gear levels quests etc i had earned or passed, the progress i made only to die instantly, regardless of what i do, regardless of my skill or lackthereof, tactics i used whether i made a mistake or not etc, from the game just declaring i die there an then, because RnG.

That's just stupid (and no that's not proper roguelike) and very poor development in my honest opinion.....

Well, things happen in ADOM. The fact that you've managed to get a WMoPC twice is a bit spectacular - RNG must be pissed off on you or something. As grobblewobble said, when you start seeing these messages, you need to consider two scenarios - either immediately trying to explore the level and kill the monster to prevent transformation or immediately GTFO.

When you die in the beginning, it's mostly RNG-related death, especially when you employ all your tactical might at the expense of the game fun (that is, throw rocks, waiting to heal, avoiding dangerous location). I can pretty well understand how pissed it can make a new player; trying again and again to beat first expectations will be quite annoying and not fun at all. All depends on your fun. A bunch of people here have played for decades (seriously) and haven't won, but haven't stopped either.

The situation where you die in the mid/endgame, provided you know a lot about enemy attacks, and you don't have anything to avoid it is very very rare. Most of the time they are caused by negligence on the player's side. I don't have anything to back things up, but here's what I imagine to be 5 endgame deaths:
1) "I can take this moloch/titan/ancient dragon/greater wyrm for one more turn with this amount of HP."
2) "I think I have the necessary intrinsic."
3) "I think I will be fine despite running out of Teleport castings/wand of teleportation charges."
4) "I don't like squishy elves, let me start with a race with maximum age below 1000 years."
5) "If I fire Magic Missile in this direction, I will kill more enemies!."

Joking aside, you need a lot of game experience and/or reading spoilers to be consistently good.

2Blasph:
Don't get me started on traps, I've been running _a lot_ of mist elven assassins recently. Needless to say, they are all dead.

[Blasphemous]

I don't play mist elves at all, since around pre18. I just don't see the point anymore.
As for that list I would add this one:
6) It shouldn't be a problem when my strength of atlas wears off, I'm 25+ strength.

[Whiskiz]

Fair enough, thanks for the feedback guys.

The only thing that would probably make me keep playing it, since i really want to because its a proper world exploratory RPG roguelike (best, concept, ever!) even though it keeps pushing me away, is _Ln_ saying its only early death which is RnG and later on is mostly when you die from poor tactics/decisions/not enough skill or knowledge etc.

Again that starter dungeon was, well the starter dungeon, wouldn't it be bad to bail on it and still be around level 2 moving on? *If i saw those warning messages? Not to mention that quest to save that guy in there or kill him and gear etc i was a troll fighter too with low archery and hadn't used throwing weapons yet so i wasn't familiar enough with it to throw at the second wmopc, and didn't know about things enough to know the first time of course.

*Actually while im here, those messages or messages in general, is there a button for a chat log?? Many times already iv'e been cruising around and seen an important message in dark orange or yellow or blue etc flicker for a second, a turn, then is gone again forever while im running along -.- unless i take a few seconds, each, and every, single, step -.-

What Blasphemous said about those traps not being able to seed in early dungeons is a damn good idea, lol.

[JellySlayer]

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