Dungeon Danger levels

[Ars]

Well maybe most dungeons should be just nondescript goblin lairs with nothing too fancy - going through all of them would be slow and not mildly useful, like scumming first levels of ID in ADOM except there'd always be the chance that just this place holds something dangerous. You'd be pointed to the meaningful locations among the dungeons by people in towns and other dungeons. The reason to have loads of quite similar places is flavour - when you can't search every nook and cranny possible the world seems more real.

When giving quests people could make remarks about how tough a job it is they're giving, saying things like "if a mighty warrior like you wants to bother with this" or "this might be a bit too tough for you, but I'll let you try at it if you want". You could always also ask local townspeople or sheriff about the nearby dungeons. They wouldn't always know much, but something.

Truly evil places would have the look of it from the outside also, warning you. By common sense, the most dangerous places would be either hidden or widely known and feared. Also the area a place is in should matter - for example near a mighty kingdoms capital most orcs would probably be hunted down quickly by the kings troops (and he wouldn't need a starting adventurers help to kill them), with the exception of well-hidden hideouts. And while in the wilds, well, things can be wild.

Also all locations should have some function to them. There's human cities, gnomish villages, kobold caves, fire drake nests, emperor lichs underground fortress... What I'd like to have also caves have more organized places like above-ground places have, not only dwarf mines but also ogre tribes who you could talk to, at least if you're an orc or troll. Maybe they'd want you to steal dwarven children for them etc., give you quests like other towns.

[F50]

Well maybe most dungeons should be just nondescript goblin lairs with nothing too fancy - going through all of them would be slow and not mildly useful, like scumming first levels of ID in ADOM except there'd always be the chance that just this place holds something dangerous. You'd be pointed to the meaningful locations among the dungeons by people in towns and other dungeons. The reason to have loads of quite similar places is flavour - when you can't search every nook and cranny possible the world seems more real.

Sure, you shouldn't want to search every nook and cranny, but you shouldn't make that boring just to prevent that. Going through a lot of them should be exciting and dangerous. Perhaps it may be required that you should do so farther away from towns to be really dangerous, but I don't want to have to do everything based on townsfolk just to be pointed to the useful places in JADE.

Truly evil places would have the look of it from the outside also, warning you. By common sense, the most dangerous places would be either hidden or widely known and feared. Also the area a place is in should matter - for example near a mighty kingdoms capital most orcs would probably be hunted down quickly by the kings troops (and he wouldn't need a starting adventurers help to kill them), with the exception of well-hidden hideouts. And while in the wilds, well, things can be wild.

already suggested in this thread, and I agree.

Also all locations should have some function to them.

Agreed, but this contradicts your first paragraph.

There's human cities, gnomish villages, kobold caves, fire drake nests, emperor lichs underground fortress... What I'd like to have also caves have more organized places like above-ground places have, not only dwarf mines but also ogre tribes who you could talk to, at least if you're an orc or troll. Maybe they'd want you to steal dwarven children for them etc., give you quests like other towns.

indeed.

[reich]

Also all locations should have some function to them.

Agreed, but this contradicts your first paragraph.

especially that the dungeons in ADOM were mostly created by the magic of Chaos to fortify the Chain. In JADE this idea would be obsolete, so most underground places should have some more defined function.

BTW the dungeons could be made more interesting by adding some puzzle elements. Levers to open gates alternatively, pressure plates for moving stone blocks and such...?

[Worst Player... ever]

You could have lots of basic goblin caves, but scumming/boredom could be solved by having the dungeon be destroyed when the last monster is killed and you exit. Kinda like the Ogre Caves in ADOM. So such low level dungeons would only be a level or two deep and they'd disappear pretty fast. You'd have to have some degree of random dungeon generation to make up for this.

It would help prevent scumming, plus there could be some benefits to the nearby town so wiping out a dungeon wouldn't just be a chore. Like if you wipe out all the dungeons, travel and trade becomes easier so prices drop.

Maybe store prices in towns could be contingent on how many nearby dungeons there are. Unsafe towns would both cost more and pay more for your goods. You could work as an honest merchant, travelling from town to town if you wanted.

Taking this a step further, wandering wilderness monster levels and frequency can be dependent on how much civilization is nearby, vs how many dungeons. It's much better than having arbitrary settings. And it's incentive... if you're level 21 but take some time to wipe out a goblin tribe, that's less goblins you'll see when you're travelling on the road.

Point being, your character would be in a position where he/she is wiping out the dungeon not just for the basic goals of experience levels, gold, and quest resolutions, but also for reputation and indirect benefits.

[Ars]

You could have lots of basic goblin caves, but scumming/boredom could be solved by having the dungeon be destroyed when the last monster is killed and you exit. Kinda like the Ogre Caves in ADOM. So such low level dungeons would only be a level or two deep and they'd disappear pretty fast. You'd have to have some degree of random dungeon generation to make up for this.

It would help prevent scumming, plus there could be some benefits to the nearby town so wiping out a dungeon wouldn't just be a chore. Like if you wipe out all the dungeons, travel and trade becomes easier so prices drop.

Maybe store prices in towns could be contingent on how many nearby dungeons there are. Unsafe towns would both cost more and pay more for your goods. You could work as an honest merchant, travelling from town to town if you wanted.

Taking this a step further, wandering wilderness monster levels and frequency can be dependent on how much civilization is nearby, vs how many dungeons. It's much better than having arbitrary settings. And it's incentive... if you're level 21 but take some time to wipe out a goblin tribe, that's less goblins you'll see when you're travelling on the road.

Point being, your character would be in a position where he/she is wiping out the dungeon not just for the basic goals of experience levels, gold, and quest resolutions, but also for reputation and indirect benefits.

Agreed otherwise, but don't destroy those places. There should always be a chance of someone resettling into that dungeon, because that's what would realistically happen after some time. Battling goblins and orcs is a never-ending battle, they can't be permanently killed by a single hero when they're spread out everywhere. But a hero surely could severely make them weaker by raiding their base and killing their leader. But they'd eventually resettle, unless the local militia gets more resources for more efficient patrolling.

Yes, there could be some meter as to who's currently in a given area. Like adjusting the chances of getting different random encounters according to nearby locations and local events. In the most civilized areas you'd meet virtually no orcs, but rather army patrols and travelling merchants and caravans. Of course if you were an orc or a mutated chaos champion, the patrol might attack you!