need help with Tomb of the high kings (and also cat lord)

[sylph]

Ok, I've started to notice a pattern with my games of Adom in recent years.
There are basically 3 things that are responsible for almost all of my deaths, and I'm sure they're extremely avoidable.

One is vile spirits, which, for melee characters, are absolute 'you shall go no further' obstacles the likes of which rivers can only dream of. If you meet a vile spirit in the village dungeon, you go find another dungeon to complete! I've learned that the answer to them is to run.
Another is the cat lord, who basically shreds every character I have ever killed a cat with, because he just kills me so fast. I'm imagining some kind of scumming of slaying missiles might help against him, but basically he's death to most of my lategame characters, and when he's not, they win the game.

Third, though, is the tomb of the high kings. It used to be absolutely trivial, but since resurrection I have massive difficulty on it. From skeleton king doing 180+ damage in a single hit, to being unable to obtain confusion resistance and drowning to piranhas, I just basically can't get the bulk to fight that skeleton king (using blessed big punch) at a level where tackling the tomb is the only option left (that is, need ring for tower, no wish to get past khelevaster yet, darkforge already done)

So, does anyone have any tips for beating the skeleton king at about level 17 using a fighter or paladin or assassin or similar melee-ish class?

[sylph]

Also, does anyone have any tips for beating the cat lord? I never have more than a few charges from teleport (wand) so leading him off-level seems iffy, I never have enough humanoid slaying ammo to kill him, and I can't run away from him or toe-to-toe him because he's so fast and damaging. Web has failed me, wand of stunning worked once, but the second time I led him into a tiny 2x1 alcove for optimal stunray bouncing, fired it 4 times, and still got no stun off...

[Dlightfull]

Ok, I've started to notice a pattern with my games of Adom in recent years.
There are basically 3 things that are responsible for almost all of my deaths, and I'm sure they're extremely avoidable.

One is vile spirits, which, for melee characters, are absolute 'you shall go no further' obstacles the likes of which rivers can only dream of. If you meet a vile spirit in the village dungeon, you go find another dungeon to complete! I've learned that the answer to them is to run.
Another is the cat lord, who basically shreds every character I have ever killed a cat with, because he just kills me so fast. I'm imagining some kind of scumming of slaying missiles might help against him, but basically he's death to most of my lategame characters, and when he's not, they win the game.

Third, though, is the tomb of the high kings. It used to be absolutely trivial, but since resurrection I have massive difficulty on it. From skeleton king doing 180+ damage in a single hit, to being unable to obtain confusion resistance and drowning to piranhas, I just basically can't get the bulk to fight that skeleton king (using blessed big punch) at a level where tackling the tomb is the only option left (that is, need ring for tower, no wish to get past khelevaster yet, darkforge already done)

So, does anyone have any tips for beating the skeleton king at about level 17 using a fighter or paladin or assassin or similar melee-ish class?

Skele king dies pretty nice to bolt spells, so should also die easily to wands imo. But i only play pre23, so things might have changed in the last version.

I never fight him on the ice bridge, i lure him out of there and fight him confortably. Also, while confused, don't try to hit/walk try to cast a spell instead, i.e. hit Z repeatedly even if you manage to open the spell list. this will let you pass the confusion without wandering off the bridge, but you'll still be under the hitting of the king, so do this while coward.

[gym21]

Also, does anyone have any tips for beating the cat lord? I never have more than a few charges from teleport (wand) so leading him off-level seems iffy, I never have enough humanoid slaying ammo to kill him, and I can't run away from him or toe-to-toe him because he's so fast and damaging. Web has failed me, wand of stunning worked once, but the second time I led him into a tiny 2x1 alcove for optimal stunray bouncing, fired it 4 times, and still got no stun off...

When I'm underpowered vs. Cat Lord, potions of boost speed, praying and a blessed wand of fireballs with ~40 charges tends to be my go-to.

[sylph]

When I'm underpowered vs. Cat Lord, potions of boost speed, praying and a blessed wand of fireballs with ~40 charges tends to be my go-to.

I'm guessing there's another story lurking behind this, like how you manage to have an 'underpowered' character obtain 40 charges of fireball!

Dlightful - can you confirm that non-spellcaster wands (ie, +0 spell effectivity) are effective against him? How many charges are we talking? I've typically got a wand of cold if I do the druid quest, with most or all the charges used making the ice bridge, and maybe 2-3 other bolt wands (magic missiles, fire, lightning) with perhaps 10 charges in total, and maybe 6 potions of booze that I'd usually rather be saving for a wand of teleportation...

[divij]

vs the catlord the phial of caladriel is absolutely stupidly good...i have had reasonably powered catlords (around 10 cats slain) fall to 3 backstabs from my assassin, while he was blinded. vs skel king, there is really no good alternative to having -conf, mayb high Wi but you must immediately pray to remove confusion...i agree, you need to lure him out of the piranha lake and kill him with attrition...i personally dont remember the last time i died to him...but mayb he has been buffed in the latest release! potion of confusion, blindness, boost speed or ?o familiar summoning can also be used if you are in a bad streak!

[Dlightfull]

I'm guessing there's another story lurking behind this, like how you manage to have an 'underpowered' character obtain 40 charges of fireball!

Dlightful - can you confirm that non-spellcaster wands (ie, +0 spell effectivity) are effective against him? How many charges are we talking? I've typically got a wand of cold if I do the druid quest, with most or all the charges used making the ice bridge, and maybe 2-3 other bolt wands (magic missiles, fire, lightning) with perhaps 10 charges in total, and maybe 6 potions of booze that I'd usually rather be saving for a wand of teleportation...

Why not use the wand of fireballs on him? should work pretty well. I think wands scale with level. To answer your question, i didn't ever pay attention what spell effectivity i had when i bolted him several times, but i was a wizard so i guess more than 5. Usually it poses no threat to me, i always lure him off the lake and either shoot him with missiles, or bolts or melee him with no problems.

[Soirana]

So, does anyone have any tips for beating the skeleton king at about level 17 using a fighter or paladin or assassin or similar melee-ish class?

Pots of raw chaos works reasonably well [would need multiples, ~4 uncursed i think]. Purple j can be slight issue, but at least does not cast confusion and does not summon.

IIRC, knocking wands works as knock bolts so king can be opened before creating bridges. Not sure what happens if he becomes purple j in red water if that is possible at all.

[Joe]

Last time I had trouble with the Skeleton King zapping a bunch of wands helped me out. He shrugs alot but once it connects he dies quite quickly.

Cat Lord: webs + poisoned ammo. I completely agree on Vile Spirits though!!

[sylph]

Against the cat lord I can confidently say that for me web is not the cure-all people imply it is. Neither is phial.
I've had a character lead the cat lord down a level so that teleport can be used, and pre-dig, pre-web a massive coridoor to pepper him with slaying ammo. He was still moving 1-2 squares towards me per turn, and I ran out of teleport charges before I could even half kill him with missiles.
Phial does indeed stop him, for a couple of turns, after which he kills me. If I keep picking the phial up and re-equipping it, ready for when it wears off, I end up taking damage as sometimes the blind wears off before I can get the phial in my missile slot again. It helps, but I'm dubious about either of these being posted as absolutes.
Mind you, if a 'reasonably powerful cat lord' is 10 cats, then I'm guessing I'm just overpowering him. Generally, after I kill a single cat, I go ape and kill every cat I encounter. I probably have at least double that (20) by the time I meet him...
I usually play fairly low turns count melee, so grinding is a bit out of the question, and I'm usually fairly low on resources. :/