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Thread: Finishing ADOM... unspoiled?

  1. #1
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    Default Finishing ADOM... unspoiled?

    So here's a question that's bugged me for quite some time.

    Is there anyone in this forum that had actually finished this game unspoiled?

    There are SO many things that seem almost impossible to figure out without looking it up or having someone tell you what to do. So many things that can kill you. So many ways to improve your character. So how are you supposed to figure all that out by yourself? Fortune cookies? Could it be that fortune cookies are the most important items for unspoiled players?

    Once in a while a player starts a post about constantly dying, getting stuck, not knowing what to do next, wondering how to survive. Doing so many things wrong. Not wanting to be spoiled in any way. So we give him tips, do this, don't do that, go here, don't go there. In other words: we're spoiling him.

    Now I'm not big genius but I'm not particularly dumb either, and seeing how bloody long it took ME to score my first ADOM-win, and I was spoiled to the bone... It boggles my mind to think that ANYONE could EVER achieve that completely unspoiled.

    So, any big masterminds out there that HAVE done it unspoiled?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjz15 View Post
    So here's a question that's bugged me for quite some time.

    Is there anyone in this forum that had actually finished this game unspoiled?

    There are SO many things that seem almost impossible to figure out without looking it up or having someone tell you what to do. So many things that can kill you. So many ways to improve your character. So how are you supposed to figure all that out by yourself? Fortune cookies? Could it be that fortune cookies are the most important items for unspoiled players?

    Once in a while a player starts a post about constantly dying, getting stuck, not knowing what to do next, wondering how to survive. Doing so many things wrong. Not wanting to be spoiled in any way. So we give him tips, do this, don't do that, go here, don't go there. In other words: we're spoiling him.

    Now I'm not big genius but I'm not particularly dumb either, and seeing how bloody long it took ME to score my first ADOM-win, and I was spoiled to the bone... It boggles my mind to think that ANYONE could EVER achieve that completely unspoiled.

    So, any big masterminds out there that HAVE done it unspoiled?
    If anyone has ... holy crap, my hat goes off to them. It was hard enough to get 2 wins (wizard and archer, both dark elves) for me, and I was quite spoiled ... a melee win still eludes me, although that has more to do with my lack of patience (and in my most promising late-game death, a lack of respect for Nuurag-Varn).

  3. #3
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    I know of at least a couple of regulars here who have done regular wins unspoiled (not me). Unspoiled ultra was probably almost impossible, IMHO, though since the prereleases at least a few more hints have been added that might make it somewhat more tractable.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  4. #4
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    i dont think there are any major issues to winning the game unspoiled....except a couple...
    How will you descend past the dwarven portal w/o knowing to chat with thundrar and tell him "portal"....
    Also, how will you know that what nuuragvaarn is killing you with is death ray and you need death ray resistance to tackle him...unless you perma-equip the AMW for some reason.
    How will you know to be deaf while near the banshee.
    dooming/cursing/sickness/herbs patterns and uses for To training, healing.
    Handling the lever on d50
    Other than these...everything else is very linear...one follows from the other. i personally always regret the fact that i was spoiled to the core in the game....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by divij View Post
    i dont think there are any major issues to winning the game unspoiled....except a couple...
    How will you descend past the dwarven portal w/o knowing to chat with thundrar and tell him "portal"....
    Also, how will you know that what nuuragvaarn is killing you with is death ray and you need death ray resistance to tackle him...unless you perma-equip the AMW for some reason.
    How will you know to be deaf while near the banshee.
    dooming/cursing/sickness/herbs patterns and uses for To training, healing.
    Handling the lever on d50
    Other than these...everything else is very linear...one follows from the other. i personally always regret the fact that i was spoiled to the core in the game....
    Gorgons instakilling you... Passing the Eternal Guardian... Knowing what corpses to eat... Knowing what items are useful and which are useless... Finding a use for a potion of uselessness :P
    I know the game was released way before the internet era, and sure, everything can be figured out by trial-and-error, but the sheer quantity of information that you need to memorize... If there's an unspoiled winner out here: don't feel ashamed to brag. How did you do it? Did you make notes of every time you died, and how you died, what killed you, how it killed you? Did you read Great Identify scrolls on every artifact you found? Did you compose lists of items, how much they weighed? Did you savescum a lot to experiment what works and what kills you? The sheer size of the task seems so mindblowing to me. Like solving a Rubik's Cube unspoiled. Only harder.

  6. #6
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    How will you descend past the dwarven portal w/o knowing to chat with thundrar and tell him "portal"....
    I actually did this the first time without spoiling myself or actually going up to where the closed portal is. I'd just gotten past the animated forest (for the quest) and talked to Khelevaster the dying sage and he had mentioned something about a chaos portal that needed closing. So the first thing I did when returning to dwarftown was to ask Thrundarr about it. I was a little confused about his response though.

    How will you know to be deaf while near the banshee.
    I didn't find this one particularly hard to figure out apart from dying once or twice in the beginning since it's her wail that kills you and the 'clean ears' command has to be there for a reason...
    Last edited by salass00; 04-06-2015 at 08:52 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjz15 View Post
    Passing the Eternal Guardian...
    The mad minstrel gives a hint about this if you chat with him as well as hints about many other things. I recommend going through all his dialogs.

    For me the main thing to do with this that I couldn't figure out on my own was how to get over the chaos piranha lake without spending ages using that useless bridge building skill (answer being to use frost bolt or a wand of cold).

  8. #8
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    Some things may appear impossible to figure out to us, spoiled players, because we don't pay attention to the clues ingame, but those clues are there and some things are pretty obvious. But i agree, winning unspoiled is extremely complicated, but i am sure it's possible. Don't forget that there's also the very helpful manual.

    I couldn't do it because i lack attention and patience. So i when i lost my patience, i spoiled myself. I regret it to this day. I tried other roguelikes unspoiled, but they lack the depth of ADOM. If i only knew from the start how deep and interesting a game is ADOM, i'd have played it unspoiled.

    Now i am waiting for ADOM II to get finished and get a manual and i will play it unspoiled.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by salass00 View Post
    The mad minstrel gives a hint about this if you chat with him as well as hints about many other things. I recommend going through all his dialogs.

    For me the main thing to do with this that I couldn't figure out on my own was how to get over the chaos piranha lake without spending ages using that useless bridge building skill (answer being to use frost bolt or a wand of cold).
    I think Thrundarr also tells you about this if you ask him about eternal guardian. He gives an awful lot of hints on midgame challenges.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  10. #10
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    I got almost to the end, as far as the Mana Temple, unspoiled. Unfortunately then I found these forums and spoiled myself, but if I got there I'm pretty sure I would have been able to finish the game.

    Honestly the puzzles found in the game (Banshee, asking Thrundarr about things, etc.) may seem very difficult now, but they are rather standard if you played RPG's in the 80's.

    Some stuff you say:

    Tell Thrundarr "portal" -> Not difficult, as Thrundarr allows you to ask you about things, when you find the "ancient dwarven portal" blocking the way, it's easy to think about asking him about it - oh, right, you never actually saw the portal because you're spoiled. Well, there is one

    Death ray resistance -> You find about it via the death ray spell, and greater identify of items with death ray resistance - the greater identify spell is very useful when playing unspoiled. Even without greater identify, seeing that there is an item called "death ray resistance" is a pretty strong hint that, well, there's something called death ray, and judging by the word "death", resisting it sounds pretty useful

    Being deaf near the banshee -> Standard mythology, banshees kill with a wail - plus actually hearing the wail when you die to the banshee.

    Herb patterns -> I don't farm herbs (spoiled or not), who cares.

    Uses of herbs -> Some are obvious by trying them (eg. spenseweed). I think I didn't figure out what the moss did. But it's not necessary for winning.

    Lever in d50 -> Never got there unspoiled, but if you see a lever in any RPG under the sun, what are you going to do? Try to activate it.

    Gorgons instakilling you -> Standard mythology. Honestly if you've seen an amulet of petrification resistance and you then see a gorgon, you can very much imagine what will happen. If not, just learn by trial and error - first time you get petrified, you learn what they do.

    Eternal guardian -> IIRC I think if you chat with him he said something about the High Kings, but that might not be true. In any case, if you talk to Thrundarr about him, he gives pretty specific hints. There are also hints from the mad minstrel/fortune cookies.

    What corpses to eat -> Trial and error.

    What items are useful -> Trial and error.

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