Ice Queen Domain

[Blasphemous]

well, i have never lost alignment doing alchemy in the IQD...mayb its the latest version. ofc, if you use it on friendlies, then there is alignment drop....but as i said, you need to kill only a couple of monsters to do the quest. also, my analysis is HEAVILY coloured by the fact that i almost always play drakes and they just cant afford to kill past the point where the environment becomes harsh to them, else their speed drops to 10. finally, i too have never experienced inventory loss in the IQD b4 this point.

Yes, that is the difference: I hate drakes and never play them.

I mostly play casters these days, so i only go to IQD for the quests. I kill the denizens after doing all the quests, to prevent the hassle of the (more) prompt.

Herein lies the other difference: I don't play casters at all these days.

[psy_wombats]

I always felt an unlockable shortcut on the wilderness would be nice.

I've wand-of-destruction'd myself a shortcut out before. Felt good.

[divij]

Yes, that is the difference: I hate drakes and never play them..

ok, my last points on this elves vs drakes non-debate debate...drakes are very good at the points in the game when you are the most vulnerable.....early game (high To, St, acid breathe), TOEF (300 speed, alertness can ensure safely killing ACW at lvl 13-14) and nuuraagwaarn (alertness, To, St). their ONLY major weakness is age (even that is atleast not as bad as trolls orcs ratling etc.). a minor weakness is they dont have find weakness (pardon the pun). so all in all, with the possible exception of mindcrafters & necromancers (since you need a good mana potential on both) i cant think of a single class that cant use what drakes have to offer, and any objections raised are badly disguised prejudices against green people...

[Blasphemous]

Elves almost cannot be aged to death (you underestimate what ghost kings can do, like death-aging a drake in a single turn) and start with 20+ Dx with potential in 30ies.
This means by level 6 I may very well have 26 Dx and all the bonuses it gives - DV and speed.
This increases survivability and makes every elven class an archer.
Ranged combat in early game eliminates most threats.
At the point when I am most vulnerable, drakes would not save me; PV would and that is a universal thing.
Elves often start with 20+ learning which allows for 5 increases of skills per level.

I have plenty of stuff to do at levels 13-14 so tower comes significantly later, around 19-20.
I have no need and see no reason to go there sooner.
The last time I was killed by ACW, it was due to my own stupidity, not the race.
I have no problems with ACW otherwise, because I always manage to get fire immunity or multiple resistances and ring of ice.
Makes Tower a place to stick around and level up while drakes are annoying as they have to continuously heal up.
This brings us to another point - drakes have problems in IQD and D:49, none of which really bother elves.
IQD is a nice place to stick around as well, there are many monsters that drop items and give exp, plenty of targets to train weapon marks.
Drakes are barred from that thanks to their reptilian nature and reaction to cold/warmth.
This single-handedly shuts down two locations that are great for leveling up between 15-20 levels.

As for Mana temple and Nurgy, I don't remember when was the last time he killed me. At this point in the game I'm usually over-prepared and have a multitude of means to destroy him even before he gets close.
Nurgy is no threat to prepared players, St/To or race have no impact on that, alertness is a nice feature but not crucial.

Early game survival boils down pretty much to getting ~10 PV.
Drakes have an additional problem that when they use acid breath in tight spots, they need to eat a lot and food can be a problem in the early game.
I've seen drakes that starved to death even though enemies couldn't scratch or catch them.

By all means, if you enjoy drakes then play them. There is no such thing as single best race.
I on the other hand, do not enjoy drakes at all and hence I don't play them.
I'm most comfortable with gray elves, even without alertness and find weakness (which dark elves have but they face a different set of challenges).

[Dlightfull]

Elves almost cannot be aged to death (you underestimate what ghost kings can do, like death-aging a drake in a single turn) and start with 20+ Dx with potential in 30ies.
This means by level 6 I may very well have 26 Dx and all the bonuses it gives - DV and speed.
This increases survivability and makes every elven class an archer.
Ranged combat in early game eliminates most threats.
At the point when I am most vulnerable, drakes would not save me; PV would and that is a universal thing.
Elves often start with 20+ learning which allows for 5 increases of skills per level.

I have plenty of stuff to do at levels 13-14 so tower comes significantly later, around 19-20.
I have no need and see no reason to go there sooner.
The last time I was killed by ACW, it was due to my own stupidity, not the race.
I have no problems with ACW otherwise, because I always manage to get fire immunity or multiple resistances and ring of ice.
Makes Tower a place to stick around and level up while drakes are annoying as they have to continuously heal up.
This brings us to another point - drakes have problems in IQD and D:49, none of which really bother elves.
IQD is a nice place to stick around as well, there are many monsters that drop items and give exp, plenty of targets to train weapon marks.
Drakes are barred from that thanks to their reptilian nature and reaction to cold/warmth.
This single-handedly shuts down two locations that are great for leveling up between 15-20 levels.

As for Mana temple and Nurgy, I don't remember when was the last time he killed me. At this point in the game I'm usually over-prepared and have a multitude of means to destroy him even before he gets close.
Nurgy is no threat to prepared players, St/To or race have no impact on that, alertness is a nice feature but not crucial.

Early game survival boils down pretty much to getting ~10 PV.
Drakes have an additional problem that when they use acid breath in tight spots, they need to eat a lot and food can be a problem in the early game.
I've seen drakes that starved to death even though enemies couldn't scratch or catch them.

By all means, if you enjoy drakes then play them. There is no such thing as single best race.
I on the other hand, do not enjoy drakes at all and hence I don't play them.
I'm most comfortable with gray elves, even without alertness and find weakness (which dark elves have but they face a different set of challenges).

I agree with you on almost everything. But what is your problem with DE's? They have all the good points of all elves AND Alertness and Find Weakness on top!!!

[Blasphemous]

I have no problems with dark elves, I frequently play DE mindcrafters to improve an otherwise horrible skillset.

The downsides to playing them are the following:
- poor prices in DT shop, which is a crucial shop
- starting alignment is C, which makes druid quest a bit trickier if you want to obtain the PoCC
- black altars are dangerous so it's preferable to use neutral or lawful ones, for which you need to switch alignment
- they have lower learning scores than gray elves, enough so to warrant one less skill point per level for virtually every r/c versus gray elves
- no dodge skill, though it's not really a big problem since dodge is not a very effective skill, but still
- perception problems during the day in wilderness and generally lower perception scores
- the dice on alertness is low because of it being a racial skill which means it's very difficult to level past ~60
- last but not least, they only live up to 1000 years

[Dlightfull]

I have no problems with dark elves, I frequently play DE mindcrafters to improve an otherwise horrible skillset.

The downsides to playing them are the following:
- poor prices in DT shop, which is a crucial shop
- starting alignment is C, which makes druid quest a bit trickier if you want to obtain the PoCC
- black altars are dangerous so it's preferable to use neutral or lawful ones, for which you need to switch alignment
- they have lower learning scores than gray elves, enough so to warrant one less skill point per level for virtually every r/c versus gray elves
- no dodge skill, though it's not really a big problem since dodge is not a very effective skill, but still
- perception problems during the day in wilderness and generally lower perception scores
- the dice on alertness is low because of it being a racial skill which means it's very difficult to level past ~60
- last but not least, they only live up to 1000 years

- prices are poor indeed, but that is rarely a problem, i still end up with more gold than i need.
- Healing is trickier too, since you never want to lose LE and WI, but i usually find a way to switch from C pretty soon and i use it as soon as i need.
- Yeah, for good Le i reroll often
- Alertness>>>>Dodge
- They usually start with 20 or close to 20 Pe, and carrot juice is more than enough to get you to 20.
- I end up with 100 Alertness before lvl 30, always.
- 1000 years is more than enough

[Blasphemous]

- prices are poor indeed, but that is rarely a problem, i still end up with more gold than i need.
- Healing is trickier too, since you never want to lose LE and WI, but i usually find a way to switch from C pretty soon and i use it as soon as i need.
- Yeah, for good Le i reroll often
- Alertness>>>>Dodge
- They usually start with 20 or close to 20 Pe, and carrot juice is more than enough to get you to 20.
- I end up with 100 Alertness before lvl 30, always.
- 1000 years is more than enough

Eventually I do end up with more gold than I need but we are talking about early-mid game. At that point gold is quite valuable and difficult to obtain in large quantities. DT shop helps with that considerably.
Yes, alertness is better than dodge. It's also somewhat more difficult to level up and unwishable.
20 or not, the recent versions implemented a day/night variation of Pe for dark elves and orcs, where they get a significant penalty during the day.
Alertness is arguably most useful before level ~25. Everything after that is superficial.
1000 years is enough for 95% of cases. I did have a gray elf aged once to ~1200, though that was a special case with 3 greater undead vaults and a multiple of ghost king tension rooms.

All that said, I still think dark elves are pretty good, though I do prefer gray elves.

[Dlightfull]

Eventually I do end up with more gold than I need but we are talking about early-mid game. At that point gold is quite valuable and difficult to obtain in large quantities. DT shop helps with that considerably.
Yes, alertness is better than dodge. It's also somewhat more difficult to level up and unwishable.
20 or not, the recent versions implemented a day/night variation of Pe for dark elves and orcs, where they get a significant penalty during the day.
Alertness is arguably most useful before level ~25. Everything after that is superficial.
1000 years is enough for 95% of cases. I did have a gray elf aged once to ~1200, though that was a special case with 3 greater undead vaults and a multiple of ghost king tension rooms.

All that said, I still think dark elves are pretty good, though I do prefer gray elves.

Dark elves are sexier too :P