Mino Maze help

[SirTheta]

So, I've explored the Mino Maze for about 15k+ turns and I've become convinced there is no path to ML7. I'm pretty sure I've explored every single available level--I've dropped a single gold piece next to every staircase I've taken to keep track. And nothing. Have I been "outmazed"? Can someone else take a crack at this and let me know if I'm just, well, stupid?

Character (Windows XP/7/8 no NOE):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1iykk126ab...apbet.svg?dl=0
-xl30 Mist Elf Duelist on ML4
-\Tele w/ 6 charges and a freshly found scroll of charging
-+TPitis and a +TCtrl ring (lost +TCtrl poolsipping for +TPitis, per the usual)
-to resist Mino Mage confusion you'll need 2x ring of mental stability and 1x helm of mental stability on (reduced if switch out Earth Orb for Water Orb). [you'll take damage w/ 2x ring of mental stability as I haven't managed to get Immune to Pain yet]

[SirTheta]

Big thanks goes to Jouni for finding the path down. I'm an idiot

[blunk]

I've tried that place once and I found it mind numbingly boring.
There's too many levels for my liking.

[Scooter Fox]

Try finding two false staircases to level 6 only to discover you need to backtrack all the way to level 1. FUN.
And still the rewards are too good to pass up, especially if you can deal with mages.

[Blasphemous]

There should be 15 levels there and more traps and all minotaurs should be extremely experienced.
Finally, already explored levels should re-scramble themselves 5k turns after exploring so the player has to explore them all over again to get out. Or backtrack.

Then we'd finally see who *really* needs to go there.

[QuickDraw]

There should be 15 levels there and more traps and all minotaurs should be extremely experienced.
Finally, already explored levels should re-scramble themselves 5k turns after exploring so the player has to explore them all over again to get out. Or backtrack.

Then we'd finally see who *really* needs to go there.

Yes, because as we all know increasing tedium instead of difficulty is the way to go.

[SirTheta]

Try finding two false staircases to level 6 only to discover you need to backtrack all the way to level 1. FUN.
And still the rewards are too good to pass up, especially if you can deal with mages.

I believe I explored every false level on the way down (unless the real ML6 had an up staircase). And boy have I ever had some bad Maze experiences *before* the Maze got good...so I do feel your pain

There should be 15 levels there and more traps and all minotaurs should be extremely experienced.
Finally, already explored levels should re-scramble themselves 5k turns after exploring so the player has to explore them all over again to get out. Or backtrack.

Then we'd finally see who *really* needs to go there.

It's long been my position that the rewards and tedium both be turned down...though to be honest I found this run much less frustrating than some past, shorter Maze runs.

[Fizanko]

I've tried that place once and I found it mind numbingly boring.
There's too many levels for my liking.

I agree 100% , this is one of the dungeon that due to how boring and repetitive the layout is would benefit from having only half of its levels.

A bit like pyramid or tower of eternal flame that in my opinion have just the right amount of levels to avoid the boringly repetitive problem with the minotaur maze.

[Blasphemous]

Ok so difficulty above tedium... I can agree with that.

I'm not sure if the effort involved is very cost-effective though. We are talking about one optional location.
I suppose we can ponder what the maze should be like versus what it currently is without making much of a hassle.

So:
You'd need new traps - special kinds only for the maze.

Stuff like effectivity 50 acid/fire/ice/lightning balls that really damage the PC without immunity or with just one resistance.
Extreme item destruction ratio. Yes, this clearly favors chars with detect traps but that is reasonable I think.
Eternium traps - spears and arrows. Stuff that deals ~100 damage with direct hit, which would translate to ~60 after PV reductions.
Chars with low PV and low HP are screwed then.
Petrification traps that insta-gib players without resistance.
Paralyzing gas traps that apply 10d10 turns of paralysis for chars without resistance.
Mino mages should cast death rays.
Mino kings should ignore PV and have 200 speed, same for the mino emp, except more attacks and more damage.
Gloom traps that blanket a circular area of ~4 tiles radius with darkness.
Reading scrolls of magic mapping should doom the PC.
Instead of snakes, random grues should emerge from the pit traps.
If the PC happens to be in darkness at the same time and has been doomed for reading a scroll... they're screwed.
Mino mages should be PP drainers, like magedoom/bane eyes.

I'm sure the creative mind of adom community can figure out many more ways that increase the difficulty without introducing tedium.
Some of the above propositions are perhaps too extreme but we're talking about getting the best weapon in the game, +6 to all attributes, a random artifact and some other loot.
Pretty damn good I'd say.

[QuickDraw]

If you want to make maze more difficult instead of tedious it is enough to disable teleport, reduce number of levels to about 3 (without any fake levels), make every trap acid trap and boost monster generation. This way there`s real danger of dying or equipment destruction without excessive boredom, as opposed to current situation where PC`s are pretty much always prepared (I haven`t died even once in the maze, because I can tele away from danger anytime) and the only real problem is the fact that you waste your precious life getting lost in a nearly empty dungeon without any interesting features thanks to only 4 enemy types and no random loot.

Actually, come to think of it teleport in ADOM is pretty much always the cause of imbalance / difficulty shifts, IMO the game would be a lot better if it wasn`t available or allowed teleporting by max 3 tiles or so.