How can we fix crowning

[sweetnothing]

Crowning is boring as hell and I would be fine with pre-/post crowning simply getting removed.

I second this.

[Soirana]

One powerful weapon (an artifact or a good ego weapon)
One powerful piece of armor (same, artifact, high quality ego, or something with a strong intrisic like a dragon scale mail)
One other valuable item (predefined set, including things like PoGA, PoCC, SoCR, RoDS. Some race/class combos might have additional stuff here, orcs might get away with saccing a potion of longevity for example).
Wealth (maybe somehow proportional to how far in the game you are)
One powerful enemy (named monster, titan, dragon, etc, maybe depends on PC level)
One friend (anything tamed)

I would prefer crowning being something quest like [Ruun could be quest giver for lawfuls since dwarftown is supposed to be lawful, druid for neutrals and HMW doctor for chaotics].

But honestly I would prefer gods being more crawlike and less of celestial ambulance in Adom.

[auricbond]

Weird, I necro'd the thread with a suggestion of an alteration to how sacrifices work, and then manseman posts his own set of ideas and three people reply with their feelings on his suggestions but not mine?

Specifically, I'm curious what people think of allowing only racially favoured items and artifacts to break a piety barrier, such that you trade artifacts for artifacts.

Oh and I too wouldn't shed a tear for pre-crowning were removed, but mine was more an attempt to 'rescue' it for those who really want to see it kept (plus I'd probably use it myself--but with more wisdom and consideration and not every single time).

I would prefer crowning being something quest like [Ruun could be quest giver for lawfuls since dwarftown is supposed to be lawful, druid for neutrals and HMW doctor for chaotics].

I wouldn't mind it, but for some reason I like the organic, emergent feel of it as a game-mechanic--boxing it into a quest might make it feel less special. I may be talking nonesense though, I can be sentimental like that. I'm also used to quest rewards being luke-warm. Maybe instead of the quest rewarding you with crowning, it rewards you with an enormous piety boost and a suggestion to pray (which won't always lead to a crowning, depending on your initial piety).

[sweetnothing]

Weird, I necro'd the thread with a suggestion of an alteration to how sacrifices work, and then manseman posts his own set of ideas and three people reply with their feelings on his suggestions but not mine?

Maybe I surprise you, but I do not remember any worthwhile suggestions how to make crowning stuff more fun in this thread. I'm a picky person. Not divine enough for my taste.

[GordonOverkill]

I don't enjoy excessive grinding very much... so I just don't do it. Most of my chars get crowned around mid to late midgame, when I usually got enough gold to directly get to absolutely close. The crowning itself gives a nice power spike for the tower and it's always exciting to see what my god has in stock for me. Sometimes I do the sac-grind earlier, but just when I find a fitting altar on a level with lots of fitting monsters or when I am really low on luck and seriously need a boost.
However, a crowning quest would be great of course. I like Soirana's idea with the different quest-givers, too.

[auricbond]

or when I am really low on luck and seriously need a boost.

I sometimes reach an impasse during my games--usually it's a pre-TOEF or pre-darkforge syndrome where I am faced with a dilemma--scum for better resources (boring) or try and proceed with what I know to be inadequate pv or dps. It's less common for me since the ego weapons were implemented and I developed a habit of picking everything up, but it still can happen. A sweet artifact could be a chance to rectify these problems but by this point i've probably generated several of the guarranteed ones, putting a precrowning out of my reach. Just another reason I think the limitations on pre-crowning are flawed. The best time to do it is if/when you reach an altar before si/keethrax/mummy, or you'll be lucky if you ever get another chance.

Maybe I surprise you, but I do not remember any worthwhile suggestions how to make crowning stuff more fun in this thread. I'm a picky person. Not divine enough for my taste.

No idea what this means.

[_Ln_]

No idea what this means.

People like simple changes and the system you proposed involves a lot of changes.

Here's a bunch of one-liner solutions I came up reading the thread:
1) Tie crowning/precrowning to Talent system and stats (high Willpower, something else)
2) Want to get a powerful boon from your deity? Pay something of yours (half max HP/PP, stats, age) + manseman's idea about items/enemies
3) Global prayer effects to discourage you from pursuing this: restoring health slows your natural HP regen, praying for food increases your food consumption, precrowning significantly increases all prayer costs, crowning greatly magnifies alignment shifts.

[Bieks]

I see nothing wrong at all with precrowning. It is boring and tedious and completely optional. Simply a way to work at your character to improve it so you either take it or leave it. The same thing with herbs and garth, I always take the time when I get to dwarftown to grind a little. There is no need for improvement and no need for removal at all. I don't really get the problem.

[gr3ybird]

2. Reduce the piety decay rate.

4. Cap the piety at 'very close' for 'regular' sacrifices. The only things that can break this limit are racially favoured items (which get you to favors at the bonus rate, and then to greatly favors at a quarter of the piety gain), and artifacts (which get you to extremely close from favors, unless it's the 'si' which should not break the cap at all). In a lot of cases you'll be swapping an artifact for an artifact-- the precrowning becomes an 'artifact swapping machine' rather than an 'artifact dispenser'.

5. Sacrificing non-qualifying items/live sacs can still reset the decay counter. Live sacs and favored items halt the decay for quite a while.

6. Praying while very close and not meeting another prayer condition results in a message hinting that something highly valuable is needed. This message is different or doesn't appear if you're not of the required level.

7. Doing a live sacrifice takes a game turn between the prayer and the god responding. The enemy A.I. will do an intelligence check and have the monster sometimes step off of the altar if it sees you praying. This also works in reverse, making chaotic alters slightly less of an evil death trap.

8. ALTERNATE VERSION: as above, but remove all level caps for precrowning and require two artifacts to jump from favors to extremely close for a second precrowning, three artifacts for a third precrowning, etc.

Maybe as a way to balance this, artifacts have a multiplier on their worth depending on its quality. Bracers of war counts as x2 artifacts (only an idiot would give these up anyway so it doesn't matter), mummy wrapping counts as 1, phial of caladrial counts as 1/2, black torq 2/3, etc.

I think these are really good ideas. Particularly stopping piety increase unless valuable items are given, and possible artifact requirements for crowns.

You generate so many junk artifacts in a game, you should get *something* for them.

I would say you should RFE this, but it doesn't look like RFE's are going to be implemented any time soon (I understand why, I'm not complaining).

[gr3ybird]

People like simple changes and the system you proposed involves a lot of changes.

His changes were basically to limit live sacking past a certain point and require valuable items to get the rest of the way there. And also a use for junk artifacts.

That's not incomprehensibly complicated.

I see nothing wrong at all with precrowning.

.

This whole thread is about people discussing what is wrong with crowning. No one has said anything that makes you wonder if there is something wrong with it?

We are saying it is boring and tedious. In the very next sentence you wrote you yourself said the same thing. You are basically saying "Well, there's nothing wrong with this part of the game except all the things that are wrong with it." What?

Look, nobody is saying it makes the game unplayable. Nobody is saying the game isn't great. We are just trying to improve an aspect of the game.