Weapon Choice

[doubtofbuddha]

So I am playing a high dexterity high elf duelist and have the rapier of the needle and a whip of slaughter. A bit more skill in the whip right now, such that the damage modifier is identical between the whip and the sword, but 1d30 is a lot better than 2d6. Of course, the rapier has some handy intrinsic bonuses that are real handy. What I am wondering is if the intrinsics are going to make up for the average of 8 more damage on the whip per hit? I have maximized find weakness if that is meaningful at all.

[Soirana]

So I am playing a high dexterity high elf duelist and have the rapier of the needle and a whip of slaughter.

I'd stick with rapier due to speed bonus, but honestly both of these weapons are not mid to late game material, so I would also look for replacement which typically means dragging most of randomly dropped weaponry into shop for price check [or hoarding and Iding by scrolls].

[divij]

whoa, rapier of the needle is a class apart from the whip of slaughtering and in my assessment, it is an end-game worthy weapon. you are under-estimating the crits it can do, dx bonus, speed bonus and importantly dv bonus too. also, duelists need not worry about weapon training since they have built in mechanism to make sure that you reach high weapon marks for any weapon that you have in your hands. all you need to do is to survive and the late game is yours.....best of luck

[doubtofbuddha]

Soirana, what would you say is late game material?

Also, what should my general strength level be before I try to tackle ToEF? I have had two characters now die there now (and have yet to get past it), so it is making me a little gunshy... Also, if I am not strong enough yet but have gotten through the CoC up to the Wall of Fire, where should I be going to get stronger?

[sweetnothing]

How did you characters die in ToEF?

[doubtofbuddha]

Overwhelmed by the monsters, mostly. I was equipped to deal with the background heat. I lost a level 21 dark elf healer and a level 19 dark elf priest.

[sweetnothing]

Do not allow them to surround you, retreat to corridors if possible.
If you can deal with steel golems in Darkforge, most of regular monsters in ToEF are doable. Though be careful with fire giant kings, they crit hard. Fire elementals are dangerous too, try to avoid them in Fire Temple by careful choice of your digging path.

But the most dangerous monster here is no doubt the boss, ACW. This one can deal A LOT of damage in a single attack. Bring blessed potions of extra/ultra healing for quick recovery. I must say that the battle with ACW requires additional preparations and special approach which you do not use usually against regular monsters. Look at the ADOM wiki for some advice if you do not know it yet.

It is possible to get lots of xp in ToEF, but the environment is too harsh. Therefore, do not explore every floor. Find stairs, get to the temple, kill ACW, grab the orb and return to the surface. Controlled teleportation is a great help for quick navigation though floors.

I always finish ToHK and Darkforge before ToEF.

[doubtofbuddha]

Yeah, I already did the two big vaults in Darkforge (the weapon vault is where I found the whip of slaughter). I have never been to the ToHK.

[Soirana]

Soirana, what would you say is late game material?

In my opinion, late game material is thing that beats big punch.
It is not like advocate actually using Big Punch, but it is sort of benchmark. If weapon compares to Big Punch clearly favorably, that weapon is good enough for mid to late game.

Normally rapier would be considered [+crits is good assuming lots of St and other bonuses] but Find weakness at 100% diminishes its value.

[doubtofbuddha]

So what sort of weapon should I be looking for? To get an idea. I don't have the strength to really wield big punch. (I think.)