Yet Another 'What to Wish For?' Thread

[Jeremiah]

I can't find flg for my ranger, but iirc they have quite bad penalties for book learning, so i wouldn't rate concentration high enough to wish for if that's the case.
I'd say rings of regeneration are the way to go in this case.
Cool weapons can be found in darkforge, good enough shield will appear anyway, but sources of regeneration are not likely to appear until casino (and even there it's no guaranteed).

It is true, regeneration is not common to lower levels, but as a ranger you do have herbalism. Just a suggestion, but a tower eternium shield would let you start training up your shield skills early, as well as providing immediate protection.

[AgingMinotaur]

Well a Gnome, especially one that has not done the PC, does not really need to wish for crystals of knowledge.

Okay, I'll certainly agree with you on that.

As always,
Minotauros

[Al-Khwarizmi]

Wishing for red dragon scale mails is highly overrated IMHO. It is not so hard to come by armor sets of similar PV, Darkforge tends to have dragonscale or comparable armor and in any case you'll be swimming in them in the late midgame. And as for fire immunity, elemental gauntlets plus a ring plus eating corpses tends to be enough. Furthermore, the ToEF has always been overrated, but now that you have plenty of places to go before that (especially Ice Queen's), it's even more overrated. I don't think spending an early-game wish on the ToEF is worth it at all.

If you are not worried about your character's long-term survival, my choice would be to stash the ring and save it for an AoLS for Khelavaster. Maybe the 6 SoCRs aren't as extremely valuable as in previous releases, but they still give you a lot of peace of mind, and it's not only that... the spellbook of TP is an awesome reward too! Together, they're much more than you'll typically get for a wish and I always tend to save early-game wishes for that.

If you are worried about short-term survivability of your character or you don't feel like saving Khelavaster for any other reason, then I'd say girdles of giant strength, bracers of regeneration (takes up a less valuable slot than rings in the early game), maces of destruction, and potions of stats and potentials and the nerfed but classic pairs of seven league boots are all good choices, depending on particular playstyle. Concentration is also worth considering, if only for the possibility of a much later wish for spellbooks of acid ball to storm the late game. Red dragon scale mails or bracers of resistance, I wouldn't bother for, honestly, although to each their own.

[JellySlayer]

While I disagree with you assessment of concentration, I don't really care to argue that out. I will however point out that a wish should be something that will have a significance effect across the whole game. All these suggested items are swell and whatnot, but none of them are really necessary. I typical don't wish for items, except in the case of Khelavaster or the shield, because the returns are so significant. I consider skills to be a far better investment (not to mention they are much harder to come by without a wish).

I work on pretty much the opposite principle. Wishes that have big effects now are more important than wishes with big effects later, because there's a decent chance that I won't be able to experience the benefits later. Most PCs die before they reach the endgame, so those benefits are much less important. Anyway, if I can survive most of the game before the wish has any value, then I can survive without it.

And I think we are both well aware that he could fix his learning with very little effort, he actually has the potential to set him-self up to be a makeshift semi-caster.

If by "very little effort" you mean "a tonne of scumming", then yeah, I guess.

[Jeremiah]

I work on pretty much the opposite principle. Wishes that have big effects now are more important than wishes with big effects later, because there's a decent chance that I won't be able to experience the benefits later. Most PCs die before they reach the endgame, so those benefits are much less important. Anyway, if I can survive most of the game before the wish has any value, then I can survive without it.



If by "very little effort" you mean "a tonne of scumming", then yeah, I guess.

Skills are not as hard to train up as you are suggesting, you just have to mix things things up and rotate what it is your are doing as you progress.

" Wishes that have big effects now are more important than wishes with big effects later,"

I like wishes that have effect both now and later, but if I just want a straight up win, then I am going to side myself with magic.

"If by "very little effort" you mean "a tonne of scumming", then yeah, I guess"

I am not sure how you are boosting your leaning, but I don't have to scum for mine, especially if all I need it for is learning spells.

[JellySlayer]

Skills are not as hard to train up as you are suggesting, you just have to mix things things up and rotate what it is your are doing as you progress.

" Wishes that have big effects now are more important than wishes with big effects later,"

I like wishes that have effect both now and later, but if I just want a straight up win, then I am going to side myself with magic.

Sure, but at 8 Literacy and 11 Le, and 20 Concentration after the wish, you aren't going getting any effect now--because you aren't going to be able to read spellbooks any time soon. Rangers will be reduced to +1 increases for literacy at 60, so it's going to be very slow going to max it. By level 20 or 25, yeah, you might be able to think about casting some spells, and maybe by level 30 you will be able to start casting the good stuff.

"If by "very little effort" you mean "a tonne of scumming", then yeah, I guess"

I am not sure how you are boosting your leaning, but I don't have to scum for mine, especially if all I need it for is learning spells.

People were talking earlier in this thread about farming crystals of knowledge to boost Le. That's a very, very slow process. Mining out an entire level with gemology at 100 might give you 1-2 crystals IIRC. Been a long time since I did that sort of thing.

[Jeremiah]

Sure, but at 8 Literacy and 11 Le, and 20 Concentration after the wish, you aren't going getting any effect now--because you aren't going to be able to read spellbooks any time soon. Rangers will be reduced to +1 increases for literacy at 60, so it's going to be very slow going to max it. By level 20 or 25, yeah, you might be able to think about casting some spells, and maybe by level 30 you will be able to start casting the good stuff.



People were talking earlier in this thread about farming crystals of knowledge to boost Le. That's a very, very slow process. Mining out an entire level with gemology at 100 might give you 1-2 crystals IIRC. Been a long time since I did that sort of thing.

"Sure, but at 8 Literacy and 11 Le, and 20 Concentration after the wish, you aren't going getting any effect now--because you aren't going to be able to read spellbooks any time soon. Rangers will be reduced to +1 increases for literacy at 60, so it's going to be very slow going to max it. By level 20 or 25, yeah, you might be able to think about casting some spells, and maybe by level 30 you will be able to start casting the good stuff."

Maybe we have a different opinion what what is considered the "good stuff". I consider darkness(yes I know it has been changed), magic missile (one of best spells in the game), far sight, burning hands, any heal, or any bolt spell spell to be a big boon to the characters survival.

"People were talking earlier in this thread about farming crystals of knowledge to boost Le. That's a very, very slow process. Mining out an entire level with gemology at 100 might give you 1-2 crystals IIRC. Been a long time since I did that sort of thing."

I am fairly sure your numbers are off, either that or every time I play a merchant I am just really lucky. Crystals of knowledge dropping have become so reliable for me, that gemology is something that I level asap. Although, now that we are talking about it, that was a recent change to my play style; I am not sure if I never noticed the advantage or the advantage is a change. I don't know the numbers, but I can't remember the last time I or ants have mined an entire level (I don't even mine for ore anymore). These days I just walk around with gemology at 100 and I get crystals of knowledge from just normal random mob spawns that mine. This is without me having to waste a bunch of time standing around. But I was thinking more along the lines of the crown of science (I use that for all my magically challenged toons) or potions of boost learning, and since I imagine he is probably gonna want to crown, the oracle is an easy hit.

[AlterAsc]

darkness(yes I know it has been changed), magic missile (one of best spells in the game), far sight, burning hands, any heal, or any bolt spell spell

High chance that he will not see any of the spells mentioned except maybe darkness as he's not a caster class.
Hell, my recent necromancer saw half of mentioned spells only in library.
Secondly, MM and bolt spells become good in mid-to-late game only when trained. As ranger he won't be able to do that easily, not enough casts. As low effectiveness damage is low and monsters will shrug them off easily.

as a ranger you do have herbalism.

Which is only replacement for regeneration if you scum herbs like crazy.

[Jeremiah]

High chance that he will not see any of the spells mentioned except maybe darkness as he's not a caster class.
Hell, my recent necromancer saw half of mentioned spells only in library.
Secondly, MM and bolt spells become good in mid-to-late game only when trained. As ranger he won't be able to do that easily, not enough casts. As low effectiveness damage is low and monsters will shrug them off easily.

Which is only replacement for regeneration if you scum herbs like crazy.

"High chance that he will not see any of the spells mentioned except maybe darkness as he's not a caster class.


We must be playing a different game, spell books are rare yes, but not that rare.

"Which is only replacement for regeneration if you scum herbs like crazy."

Regeneration will come, we are talking about the early game; you can make it by the early game on a stack of a few herbs. Wishing for regeneration is wishing for something you are gonna get anyways.

[AlterAsc]

For any non-caster non-Paladin class, spellbooks are hit or miss. More likely miss.
Secondly, as ranger untill post-ToEF game, he won't get any good results with casting. Not even if he scums Learning very high. Different classes get different bonuses from learning, and rangers are not on the high end of that scale.
Thirdly - regeneration is not guaranteed. I had games where i didn't have it. Sucked to be me.
On shields - finding shield like [+9, +2] is not hard, and it's not really worse then [+13, +4] until your shield skill gets to 9. Which is not any soon.

tl;dr:
You advocate Concentration, so his character gets to scum for healing, scum for learning, get lucky with spellbook drops, so that at late game he can read easier spellbooks.
I advocate for rings of regeneration which allow character to stay most of the time at max hp and don't stop for regenerating in between hard fights. And no tedious grinding involved at all. And regeneration always stays relevant.