Has the ADOM community fallen out of the habit of using spoiler tags?

[Soirana]

I forget how old ADOM is sometimes.

I think it has been an overall change in gamers attitude. In the 90'ies games were more puzzle like and figuring something felt like an achievement.
Nowadays gaming is more of a recreational activity and a player expects to find answers on wiki or a guide and if he doesn't... well, he will probably just give instead of trying to solve it.
That depends on the game, I guess, but in Civ4 forums people openly discussed game code revelations. In Adom, I think, giving away spoilers/obscure messages was mostly due to lack of new and unspoiled players. We will probably have influx of new blood, I am rather unsure if they want to remain unspoiled.

Tu sum, I think HoF type of subforum for spoiler free questions and answers would be the best solution.

[auricbond]

I think it has been an overall change in gamers attitude. In the 90'ies games were more puzzle like and figuring something felt like an achievement.
Nowadays gaming is more of a recreational activity and a player expects to find answers on wiki or a guide and if he doesn't... well, he will probably just give instead of trying to solve it.

I'm not sure that that's a fair generalisation. The people who like problem-solving never decreased in number, but the games that are constantly reaching out to a new audience with streamlining have crowded out others and the people who those games appeal to were always the the larger potential number (hence why the AAA projects bank on it). I think if the audience of any game is going to represent the problem-solver more dominantly than other games, though, it would be that of ADOM.

We will probably have influx of new blood, I am rather unsure if they want to remain unspoiled.

Exactly: unsure. Hence we leave them the option.

Tu sum, I think HoF type of subforum for spoiler free questions and answers would be the best solution.

I never participated on HoF so i'm not sure what a HOF-type of subforum is as opposed to any other kind?

[Soirana]

I
I never participated on HoF so i'm not sure what a HOF-type of subforum is as opposed to any other kind?

http://adom.brinkster.net/forum/
Basically there is a subforum for discussions and another one for spoily discusions. Anything of interest was discussed in the latter.

I would like leaving an option if I ever heard of many people who played Adom unspoiled for years [ilseko springs to mind as an exception]. In my opinion spoiling people helps with their retention, so I'm going to keep up good work.
And I would need to put 95% of my posts in spoilers otherwise.

[auricbond]

In my opinion spoiling people helps with their retention, so I'm going to keep up good work.

Your assumption is unwarranted and unproven. And that attitude makes me angry, calling your rudeness 'good work'. It doesn't matter if 99.9% of people want spoilers, we don't ruin it for anyone. Plus spoiler tags help people decide on a per-case basis which things they wish to be spoiled on. I've already seen people raging at spoilers in steam reviews that divulged various tips and tricks thanks to jokers like you and they're not doing it to be assholes, but because they're genuinely pissed off due to being spoiled.

I'd say the desire for spoiler obfuscation is directly correlated to the inflow of new players, and nothing to do with changing attitudes in gaming. Most people want to experience the fun of flubbing around and dying when the game is new to them, and only later go "ok, this is getting kind of hard/I'm really strugging, guys, how do I deal with this?"

[JellySlayer]

I'd be happy with a separate spoiler-free forum. That makes the most sense, IMHO.

[Soirana]

Your assumption is unwarranted and unproven.

I'd say the desire for spoiler obfuscation is directly correlated to the inflow of new players, and nothing to do with changing attitudes in gaming.

My assumption is just as much proven as yours.
I haven't seen any new players complaining about spoilers in years on this forum. However I have seen numerous other game forums, which don't give a damn about spoilers and function just fine.

Overall nostalgia for spoiler free times is more of a veteran players feature. Personally I've got to below Casino on my own, but never figured dwarven quests [outside portal one] exist. That didn't add fun nor dying for few times before finding keybind to enter locations.

Most people want to experience the fun of flubbing around and dying when the game is new to them, and only later go "ok, this is getting kind of hard/I'm really strugging, guys, how do I deal with this?"

Citations of Adom forum users post are needed.

As far as steam goes I would be more worried that lv5 achievement is unlocked by 42% players while lv10 only ~14. Which means 2/3 of players who actually played the game and figured how to enter locations don't reach lv10. This is more troublesome than some post raging [I have seen more raging about how game is needlessly obscure, but maybe that is just selective reading].

[Grey]

The game itself needs to spoil people more. Some elements are indeed needlessly obscure. Talking to the dwarven elder about the "portal" is a prime example.

[auricbond]

My assumption is just as much proven as yours.

The difference is, you can always enlighten people who are unenlightened, but you can't un-enlighten someone who has been enlightened. So it should be consensual enlightenment, as good manners. Guess what--having a separate forum or obliging a spoiler-tag convention doesn't block people who wish to be spoiled from being spoiled. So there's literally no reason not to do it except a small time-cost to you.

I haven't seen any new players complaining about spoilers in years on this forum. However I have seen numerous other game forums, which don't give a damn about spoilers and function just fine.

I don't think this is something that needs proof, only a benefit of the doubt.

Overall nostalgia for spoiler free times is more of a veteran players feature.

No nostalgia--there is a REASON it was ever implemented in the first place and that reason did not go away. The fact that anyone HAS asked, and they have, is proof of that. I think it's only fair even if it's a paltry small percentage who wishes it to be observed, but my guess is that it isn't that small of an amount.

[Soirana]

The fact that anyone HAS asked, and they have, is proof of that. I think it's only fair even if it's a paltry small percentage who wishes it to be observed, but my guess is that it isn't that small of an amount.

What fact? I haven't seen any unspoiled forum users asking for that. Please, prove me wrong.

In current state I still think having unspoiled subforum is the best option for these imaginary fringe cases.

p.s.

I've already seen people raging at spoilers in steam reviews

Could I get a link to this reviews? Cause I have just read all the negative ones and none complained about spoilers.

[paivi]

Most people want to experience the fun of flubbing around and dying when the game is new to them

Most people? In 20 years I've never yet met anyone who has played ADOM for more than a few hours and who's been avoiding spoilers. On the contrary, players seem to actively seek spoilers out. In my experience, the only people who complain about spoilers ruining the fun for new players are old Adom veterans, spoiled to the teeth.

I think spoiler warnings for games like ADOM are sort of obsolete. Sure we could have a separate forum for spoiler-free stuff, but I don't think people would really read it.