Are staffs good enough on wizards?

[Blasphemous]

Eternium staves can occasionally be obtained in SMC which makes them quite the thing in the early game.
I'm all-in for making staves get extra bonuses when used by wizard-type classes.

[nanomage]

I've fought with an eternium-shod staff of devastation once. just once. That one was good enough, though it was on a 50 level bard. Others, useless (
lowering required weapon marks in few select select weapon classes for casters sounds good, but I think it wont swing the balance from those nonnak+shield or trusted one + shield combos. IIRC there was a time when the best was shield+shield, and that got patched out pretty brutally, maybe something along these lines would be good to force casters into more archetypical image? Smth along the lines of "casting without a spare hand costs 1.5x time more energy and power", or "casting utility spells without a free hand is impossible (still can throw around bolts with your sword)"?

EDIT: wielding a two-handed weapon would obviously have to be considered as having one hand free for casting in this case. Another interesting possibility along these lines would be introducing a new corruption to lose or get more arms/hands...

[shockeroo]

Okay, sounds like Wizard, Necromancers and Elementalists all need:
Quarterstaff skill to train at normal rate, not double like all other weapon skills

Then probably something else. Possibly::
Staffs grant [those classes] a bonus to willpower equal the Quarterstaff skill +damage modifier
(Staff damage progression goes 0/0/0/0/+1/+1/+2/+2/+3/+3/+5/+6/+6/+7/+8/+10)

or

Spellcasting energy penalty (1500?) without staff equipped or free hand.

Thoughts?

[yhal003]

Staves skill already provides excellent bonuses, I don't think there is a need to increase them further. And willpower bonus for weapons training does not make much sense (higher willpower for sticking to worst weapons in the game?). Spellcasting penalty will hurt semi-casters more and it is not very logical to restrict this to wizards only. I do like the idea of normal training rate for wizards (and maybe necromancers).

I think the main problem is lack of decent staves. Higher metal ones are rare in early game and not good enough in late game, unless they have a good suffix. Quicksilver is not durable, rare and has small damage output. Artifact staves are not guarantied and are not wishable. If we are talking about wizards, some defensive staves would be nice, with PV bonuses and maybe rare intrinsics. Other classes will need slaying powers or decent damage output.

[shockeroo]

Staves skill already provides excellent bonuses, I don't think there is a need to increase them further.

The DV is good if you train the skill high, but it's still worse than a shield and takes up one hand more.

I think the main problem is lack of decent staves.

How do you create a staff for Wizards to use? Damage stats are largely irrelevant. +PV staffs would be good, but don't make a lot of sense either. +To also. I like +Wi because the Wizard can focus his power through the staff - a-la the 'Wizard's Staff' of fantasy and legend.

[Soirana]

How do you create a staff for Wizards to use?

I would say allow wizards [and necros] to charge staves (they charge wands already). that wold be like giving some pp [probably permanet pp loss too] and spell-knowledge for staff enchantment, which would depend on spell used. It does not have to be enchantment for each spell, but at least major things like elemental bolts, MM and so on.

[shockeroo]

I would say allow wizards [and necros] to charge staves (they charge wands already). that wold be like giving some pp [probably permanet pp loss too] and spell-knowledge for staff enchantment, which would depend on spell used. It does not have to be enchantment for each spell, but at least major things like elemental bolts, MM and so on.

I like the flavour of this a lot, it feels very right for a Wizard's staff. However, it also sounds like quite a complicated new feature. Any idea how you'd want it to work exactly in practice?

Also, why no love for Elementalists? They have basically the same deal as Wizards and Necros regarding weapon choice and training.

[Soirana]

I like the flavour of this a lot, it feels very right for a Wizard's staff. However, it also sounds like quite a complicated new feature. Any idea how you'd want it to work exactly in practice?

Also, why no love for Elementalists? They have basically the same deal as Wizards and Necros regarding weapon choice and training.

Let say, char could have something on class power screen which would allow for 100PP[10PP permanent loss] and 200 of proper spell knowledge to enchant non-artifact of choice:
Acid bolt -- acid resist +5 To [+stat is half bonus of closest orb]
Frost bolt -- cold resist +5Wi
Fire bolt -- fire resist +5St
Lightning bolt -- lightning resist +5Dx
Magic missile -- +5 Mana, some base chance at avoiding bolts [alertness like]
Stun ray -- conf resist, stun resist
Death ray-- death resist
Invisibility -- see invisble, +stealth checks [as stealthy talent]
Teleport -- tp control

Although these would hardly beat sword of nonnak [+5 Wi, death resist, allows shield], so likely would be cover up for missing intrinsic. maybe wizzards [and other] casters don't need such buff....

[yhal003]

The DV is good if you train the skill high, but it's still worse than a shield and takes up one hand more.

What if wizards need 10 times more marks to advance shields and any weapon skill but the staves?

[Soirana]

What if wizards need 10 times more marks to advance shields and any weapon skill but the staves?

Personally, i would just use knife of endurance and high level [tower crystal, large/tower eternium] shield anyway. it is not like wizards need damage out of weapon, you can bash goblins with log or wooden stick.

At something like lv3 in knives and shields, that is still 19 dv, 4 pv and hp regen [or whatever you getting out of main hand weapon]. Staves at lv10 [i probably would not reach more with wizard anyway] is just 20DV.

that is not a big secret anyway - essentially shields are bonkers.