Ratlings are seriously underrated.

[Garresh]

Well, I'd say it's a good sign that there is some lively debate here. If I can derail my own thread for a moment though, what's this about cure corruptions being less useful now? I'm not overly familiar with all the changes as I took a long break from the game for a while and still haven't caught up with all the subtle changes.

[Soirana]

Herbalism, so I can get early herbs, dodge, because it doesn't train itself, literacy, because I like reading books with most characters, few points in first aid to get it going, haggling if I'm playing a mist elf, climbing if leftover points, gemology if character gets it, alchemy if I get it, archery, detect traps, and when I get to dwarftown finally I put all into tactics and twf.

Herbalism trains itself, no? Just need to make more bushes and wait a bit.
Archery at 100 is what? +4 to hit +2 to damage for non-archer (yeah, unlocks few overrated talents).
Literacy, I don' t know, depends on char, but isn't it like total waste? Literacy pot should cover you in most cases.
Haggling... you actively use it with success? Really?
Twf? is new overpowered skill, I guess. Straight up with tree handling.

How is it grinding to sweep past most monsters in smc to maintain lvl 1ish? How is it grinding to get the puppy by lvl 5? Not a troll either.

Putting a lot effort (in game turns or real life time hours) to reach some debatable objective (like puuppy saving under lv5 so you could hunt Kranach) is grinding, right?
I mean you could just let Kranach flee, puppy die and use that effort to something else (personally, I like precrown, and yes, it is grindy, lol)

I don't get why you got offended by grinding point. Best ADOM results are like 5k turns and a tad over 2h (not in the same run). So anything south of that could be called grind, cause on what these extra turns and hours were spent? Clearly on unimportant stuff. In my experience in 1.2.0 most of ultras end grinding for experience to get to lv45 due to changes (unless RNG sends tension room of titans/molochs or multiple not-undead greater vaults).

Well, I'd say it's a good sign that there is some lively debate here. If I can derail my own thread for a moment though, what's this about cure corruptions being less useful now? I'm not overly familiar with all the changes as I took a long break from the game for a while and still haven't caught up with all the subtle changes.

Background corruption has been reduced. Severely. (I think old behavior happens with like Appurtenance 1, but anything higher gives significant reduction, or something like that ).

[Blank4u47]

Well, I'd say it's a good sign that there is some lively debate here. If I can derail my own thread for a moment though, what's this about cure corruptions being less useful now? I'm not overly familiar with all the changes as I took a long break from the game for a while and still haven't caught up with all the subtle changes.

The corruption before day 90 is much reduced, after 90 it's the way it was before I guess. Doesn't get bad until day 180. High Ap lets you absorb more corruption before getting a corruption, don't know the upper limit for its usefulness yet, but low ap is bad now. Think that's it?

[Blank4u47]

Herbalism trains itself, no? Just need to make more bushes and wait a bit.
Archery at 100 is what? +4 to hit +2 to damage for non-archer (yeah, unlocks few overrated talents).
Literacy, I don' t know, depends on char, but isn't it like total waste? Literacy pot should cover you in most cases.
Haggling... you actively use it with success? Really?
Twf? is new overpowered skill, I guess. Straight up with tree handling.


Putting a lot effort (in game turns or real life time hours) to reach some debatable objective (like puuppy saving under lv5 so you could hunt Kranach) is grinding, right?
I mean you could just let Kranach flee, puppy die and use that effort to something else (personally, I like precrown, and yes, it is grindy, lol)

I don't get why you got offended by grinding point. Best ADOM results are like 5k turns and a tad over 2h (not in the same run). So anything south of that could be called grind, cause on what these extra turns and hours were spent? Clearly on unimportant stuff. In my experience in 1.2.0 most of ultras end grinding for experience to get to lv45 due to changes (unless RNG sends tension room of titans/molochs or multiple not-undead greater vaults).

I guess according to your definition, yes I am grinding, however by my definition I am not, because I believe grinding is repetitively performing some action to eventually achieve a goal (such as obtaining specific loot/corpse) I don't do that, therefore I don't believe I'm grinding.

I see your point, and I am not offended, just feeling argumentative as we are apparently meaning different things. I feel that a game ended in 5k turns, while an achievement, isn't worth playing, I'd be totally bored.

And yes, herbalism trains itself, but with a high initial value you can get more blessed herbs earlier, especially if you're unluck with bushes.

Archery, I like at high values because of the +1-2 range I get, I like throwing stuff also talents are nice with certain non magic classes, for those GUVs I always get (love the challenge)

Literacy, if it's 40 or less I get potion true, but some classes need help even then, and I like turning most classes into casters eventually, like beastfighters are decent semi-casters once they get concentration (or if)

Haggling... Situational. With MEs prices are so shitty they need all the help they can get if you ever get a restock ( I don't wait for it, just luck if I do) but yes, by skill 75 or so, haggling works, it's especially nice with mist elves as they don't get any gold early on from shops.

Two weapon fighting, not overpowered, true, but if I'm training a new weapon class, it's the fastest way. Let's say I'm using swords whole game but I get a spear of devastation, I strap on two weak spears but then switch to uber weapon if I get a hard opponent.

[Soirana]

Two weapon fighting, not overpowered, true, but if I'm training a new weapon class, it's the fastest way. Let's say I'm using swords whole game but I get a spear of devastation, I strap on two weak spears but then switch to uber weapon if I get a hard opponent.

How is that not grinding, lol?

I guess, you have not seen ~5k runs. They are definitely more fun, than saving puppies.

[Blank4u47]

How is that not grinding, lol?

I guess, you have not seen ~5k runs. They are definitely more fun, than saving puppies.

I save the puppy because it's what heroes should do

[Soirana]

I save the puppy because it's what heroes should do

I think this point happened to be used multiple times before but anyway...

How do you think Ancardia ended in current state? Cause heroes saved puppies, cured carpenters and tended to dwarven needs instead of beatting crap out of ChAoS.

[Garresh]

I think this point happened to be used multiple times before but anyway...

How do you think Ancardia ended in current state? Cause heroes saved puppies, cured carpenters and tended to dwarven needs instead of beatting crap out of ChAoS.

Good point. Next time Ill eat the puppy in front of the little girl to gain the favor of ChAoS.

[Blank4u47]

I think this point happened to be used multiple times before but anyway...

How do you think Ancardia ended in current state? Cause heroes saved puppies, cured carpenters and tended to dwarven needs instead of beatting crap out of ChAoS.

Funny! But I feel it ended in current state because some badass chaotic dude named Andy took over, and his soul could've been saved by helping a few carpenters, dwarves and puppies but seriously, I do it for a few reasons, partly just for the hell of it, partly for the law skill (yes I use it, it does help me from going overboard while pickpocketing or using shadow touch)

[Soirana]

I guess according to your definition, yes I am grinding, however by my definition I am not, because I believe grinding is repetitively performing some action to eventually achieve a goal (such as obtaining specific loot/corpse) I don't do that, therefore I don't believe I'm grinding.

I think you are grinding by your definition too. You are "repetitively performing some action"s with each new character to get your puppy and raider lord. That's rather typical, although, players tend to try force certain things (and blame RNG for not cooperating) a lot.