Points-based generation discussion (R65)

[Soirana]

I, for one am quite pleased with the current implementation of the point based system. Finally have a successful unarmed duelist challenge because of it!

Could you explain for some of us (non native English, non mind readers) how the questions system had a positive influence on your character?

[Blank4u47]

Could you explain for some of us (non native English, non mind readers) how the questions system had a positive influence on your character?

I could get a mostly non-random character that had decent attributes in the stats I needed. It's kinda perfect when planning out a specific character type for a challenge. I really thought this was obvious, I don't mean that sarcastically, I just didn't put enough thought into my comment to consider other people's perspectives.

[Soirana]

I could get a mostly non-random character that had decent attributes in the stats I needed. It's kinda perfect when planning out a specific character type for a challenge.

So, that saved like 10 minutes of real life at a cost of not getting outsanding "attributes in the stats you needed", something like that?

Well, post your initial stats together with YAVP then.

EDIT: So, i rolled more. Gray and High elves can't put a single point into toughness, hobits into strength or mana, mist elevs, strength or toughness, dwarves in dexterity.
Say hello to specializing as hutrthling mindrcafter or mist eleven fighting class.

Raise costs have fixed cost (surprised me), so gnome getting ST in low teens and troll in high twenties spend the same amount of points.
Costs are St 5, Ma, Le, DX, To at 4, Wi and Pe at 3, Cha at 2 and App for one point.
Value of Ma is the same as To and Pe the same as Wi... o-O

Trolls get something out-landishly stupid like 55 points to distribute, while dwarves have... 21....

I can't find any way class has any influence before or during stat distribution (might have missed something, but giving weak classes at least few extra points would be like.... good?).

Honestly if this gets released in current form, better get shitstorm resistant cloaks ready....

[Blank4u47]

So, that saved like 10 minutes of real life at a cost of not getting outsanding "attributes in the stats you needed", something like that?

Well, post your initial stats together with YAVP then.

You are taking this too far. Seriously. Point based generation is a convenience at the cost of variety and exceptionalism. Yes I saved 10 minutes, but I only have an hour to play! That's 1/6 of my play time. I wouldn't be playing this unexceptional character at all if I had to keep re-rolling. In the meantime, I got 17 in str and 18 in Toughness with a duelist so I can have an easier time with unarmed combat. I have no idea if he'll survive, but he's made it into coc so it's promising.

[Soirana]

You are taking this too far. Seriously. Point based generation is a convenience at the cost of variety and exceptionalism. Yes I saved 10 minutes, but I only have an hour to play! That's 1/6 of my play time. I wouldn't be playing this unexceptional character at all if I had to keep re-rolling. In the meantime, I got 17 in str and 18 in Toughness with a duelist so I can have an easier time with unarmed combat. I have no idea if he'll survive, but he's made it into coc so it's promising.

Name a race of that duelist, I will roll 20 chars and compare St and To. Then we might have a meaningful discussion. Mygut feeling is ~1/3 of chars would be at least very close to these stats.

So far I see only fanboy cheering.

[Blank4u47]

Name a race of that duelist, I will roll 20 chars and compare St and To. Then we might have a meaningful discussion. Mygut feeling is ~1/3 of chars would be at least very close to these stats.

So far I see only fanboy cheering.

Dwarf duelist candle.
17,14,13,12,18,9,13,12,12

Have fun! Let me know what your research brings.

[Soirana]

Dwarf duelist candle.
17,14,13,12,18,9,13,12,12

Have fun! Let me know what your research brings.

Let us see:

14/18
18/18
13/16
15/15
18/18

17/18
15/19
17/17
14/17
15/16

12/16
17/15
13/18
16/19
17/16

19/15
15/18
17/18
15/17
17/16

So two 17/18 and two better than that. 4 in color are close enough for my taste (ST<18 is not critical in my opinion).

So, yeah you need to roll like 3-4 chars on average, but.... random roll after setting is like two key-presses (g-to generate and space-to roll) and than the name and talents, while in points you have to spend time... well, doing points (every bloody time, game does not try remember your choices despite preset racial stats and their values being seemingly the same).

Now, honestly 17/18 through points is on lower side of randomization (I've checked just ~5, but some landed in twenties). However, that is benefit of dwarves, since they can put +3 points in both St and To. Mist elves can put ... zero. Humas can do +2 in both, orcs can do +3 (with better stat bas I think ) and hobbits can do zero St and +2 To., gnome +1 in each.
So, maybe if you playing race which fits class naturally, than maybe point allocation is worth something. But elven fighters and orc wizards are screwed all over (and these are the ones I want to allocate points).

So honestly I like ability to preset month/class/race without editing config file, but that whole point thing stinks.

[Blank4u47]

For someone who re-rolls characters, the point based system sucks. For someone who runs with whatever character he gets, like me, it's great. Sometimes. I'll still use random for most of my normal play-throughs.

[Soirana]

For someone who re-rolls characters, the point based system sucks. For someone who runs with whatever character he gets, like me, it's great. Sometimes. I'll still use random for most of my normal play-throughs.

Dude, what benefits of point system are for mist elf fighter/assasin/barb? To and St fixed, have fun making allocations in mana and perception....

[Soirana]

So, summary of what I not so humbly think needs fixing.

1. Broadening adjustement range - things like strength and toughness having set value for the race is not the way to go. I can understand that let say mist elf needs twice (or 3x) as many points to improve St as troll, but saying this is customization screen and your main stats are not customizable.... well, just no.
2. Introduce class influence - so dwarf barbarian has same costs and ability to improve as dwarven wizard in all stats.... This is not character creation screen, that is race modificator or something.
3. Make game remember my previous stat allocation, especially if allocated stats are randomized (that might be background adjustments, maybe)
4. Adjust stat values (and make not fixed). For any character with St<18 I am worried only about potential (and races with low potentials can't allocate a damn thing in St) cause it is easy to train even early. Toughness should be highest costing stat, then St, Dx, Le. Well, again barbarian values stats from different perspective than wizard.
5. Don't give trolls 2.5xdwarves points? Seriously adjusting more points for certain classes, or at least r/c combos would be nice.
6. Somehow balance above, so that with a mist elf fighter, orc archer or hobbit mindcrafter a sane person would at least consider touching point system (because now with these characters I would not.)
7. Show final stats and influence allocation makes (having~10 point differential between allocation screen and after ful generation is.... not good). Even if final stats are shown as possible range that would be an improvement.