Early-game help needed

[Carter]

I don't run assassins with shield. You can carry one for tough places, but it's doable without shield as well.

its doable but it makes it ALOT harder. A good shield find will typically double a character's DV. Assassins are very squishy early game, particular hurthlings/gnomes. Double wielding is really only a thing for more tanky races. IMHO without thinking of challenge games dual wielding is only good once you are above level 20 or so and you are 1 hitting most stuff. Even then, i'm not sure losing 20+ DV makes sense when most monsters at high DL can take alot of damage.

[Long Sting]

You don't have to do the PC if you don't want to. Most important is getting Healing from the Carpenter quest. If you can survive that, then see what kind of shape you're in and assess your options. PC isn't a wrong choice, but the dungeon features there do make it a bit dangerous. The bottom level can be very dangerous if you get unlucky with the dungeon feature there, so if you do get down that far, don't feel bad if you need to make a hasty retreat. Running away is always better than dying

Yeah I'm think Straight to VD is best. I just feel like I get punished for dual wielding so hard is the thing.

[Long Sting]

Personally, I go small cave to HMV every game. However, this has a higher casualty rate - I like the early crucible effect - if they can make it through the UD then they're probably worth it, if they can't then I haven't invested to much time in them (this is the path of pain - I do it because I'm lazy and for the glory). However you'll probably find more success in the more cautious VD route. Plus, many consider the healing skill essential (and it's damn good) but I've learned to make do without it. To help sometimes Candle born can be taken, especially if you choose to go for the heir gift. Raven/tree also have survival pros.

Talents are one of the places this forum is pretty aggressively split on and a great question to absolutely derail this thread. It goes something like this (for me!): start with 3 talents? How good is the heir gift? (Judgement call) If good get it. If not good, get alertness and as many of the hardy + pv talents I can get. As leveling continues favor the PV talents tree over treasure hunter tree. Gives treasure hunter late which some might argue makes it not with it but it's how I do it. Then quickness talent tree and maybe archery talents if that's available. DV talents next. The end. Packing talents if nothing else. I never do the book reading talents because I don't play spell casters much. Feel free to argue over this with others.

(Also try to remember to not take miser if you took the heir gift over alertness - a common silly mistake I make occasionally. NBD usually but annoying)

You can check the small cave first to see if the stairs are close. If they are you can go the UD route after you get healing skill.

Oh and jellyslayer up there said the #1 rule of adom (one I forget too often): running is better than dying. I also agree that the puppy cave is often a trap usually best left for a time when you're stronger (cavernous levels are more of a low/mid-teen level difficulty IMHO).

That seems good. So what is heir gift? is that the talent that gives more starting gold? So you still get alertness first then do PV stuff before TH? How much PV do you get out of the whole tree? Also to RErail the thread, would this talent progression be good for my Bilbo character? Seems likely. Especially the PV

[JellySlayer]

To get Heir you need to take the talents Charming, Boon to Family, and Heir, ALL at the beginning of the game. This means you can only do it if you start with 3 talents, and if you want Treasure Hunter as well, you need 4, since to get TH you also need Alert as a starting talent. Heir gives you a special item that is appropriate for your class. Some are better than others--they range from a mid-level weapons and armor (stuff you can replace by level 10 or so) to some fairly rare and powerful stuff (bards and thieves have the best; healers and fighters are decent too).

For an Assassin, I'd recommend the missile talents--Good Shot/Keen Shot/Quick/Quick Shot/Eagle Eye/Lightning Shot. Combined, these give very nice bonuses to all missile attacks (+6 to hit and damage, 20% faster attacks, +2 speed). But that assumes you're going to be playing a missile-heavy character.

I'll echo the advice given in the Wiki article I quoted you earlier about talents: Generally, Treasure Hunter is a poor investment unless you can survive the early game (say, to Dwarftown). If you're dying a lot (or always) at the start of the game, you're probably better off with something different. The PV talent line is Hardy/Tough Skin/Iron Skin/Steel Skin/Immune to Pain, giving +3 HP, +4 PV, and +1 special PV. You need 20 To and 15 Wi to get the full benefit though, so if you don't have a good starting roll you need to train up your stats somehow. Another good option is speed line: Quick/Very Quick/Greased Lightning/Long Stride. Combined, these give you an effective +14 speed, which lets you outrun almost every enemy in the early game. Good for missile users, good for getting yourself out of bad situations.

[edit]On a Hurthling, even just grabbing Long Stride on its own (+5 effective walking speed) is often enough to make you fast enough to run away from lots of things, since Hurthlings generally start with a high enough Dx score to get 2-3 points of speed naturally.

[Shinae]

You can also try pick more durable race for your assassin. Dwarf example starts with slightly better toughness and usually few points of PV. That might help to survive early game. Also take your time exploring, game is turn based so if you are in a tight spot, you can easily check your inventory and think about all available options. Running away is always a good thing in tight spot.

[Long Sting]

Thanks a lot. With Hurthling I usually get 2 Talents so I'm assuming skipping Alert in favor of Hardy or Quick would be best. and then not dual wielding until I've used level ups to Needle and Sting. If it's not too much to ask, what is the best way to get Needle and Sting? I've never gotten further that ToEF with any character so the mid-late game is still a shot in the dark somewhat for me.

[Long Sting]

Yes that's true, the only reason I stick with Hurthling is cause I want that Bilbo roleplay. That's the biggest thing, I also try to stick it out through meleeing at like 3 health and taking huge risks cause I don't want to run away. Developing the habit of running away when it gets sticky is tough, ESPECIALLY in the Small Cave when I just want to check one more room for the blanket/stairs. Always tough to forego that value, even when you know it's saving your life.

[Soirana]

Yes that's true, the only reason I stick with Hurthling is cause I want that Bilbo roleplay. That's the biggest thing, I also try to stick it out through meleeing at like 3 health and taking huge risks cause I don't want to run away. Developing the habit of running away when it gets sticky is tough, ESPECIALLY in the Small Cave when I just want to check one more room for the blanket/stairs. Always tough to forego that value, even when you know it's saving your life.

Don't recall Bilbo dualwielding... (well, he didn't use shield either so class wise duelist might be better choice )

What value stairs have if you are struggling to keep characters alive?

[Blank4u47]

Yes that's true, the only reason I stick with Hurthling is cause I want that Bilbo roleplay. That's the biggest thing, I also try to stick it out through meleeing at like 3 health and taking huge risks cause I don't want to run away. Developing the habit of running away when it gets sticky is tough, ESPECIALLY in the Small Cave when I just want to check one more room for the blanket/stairs. Always tough to forego that value, even when you know it's saving your life.

If you want to do smc that bad, it may be a good idea to start avoiding monsters while you're using coward tactics. It only generates harder monsters if you gain levels, and by lvl 5 it's nearly impossible to not die.

[Long Sting]

Don't recall Bilbo dualwielding... (well, he didn't use shield either so class wise duelist might be better choice )

What value stairs have if you are struggling to keep characters alive?

Yeah he didn't dualwield but I don't want to just have Sting with no shield haha. If it wasn't for the massive bonus Needle and Sting get then I would. Yes you're definitely right. I just fight too long in SMC. One thing is though, a lot of times when I just go to UD without fighting anything in SMC an Orc Chieftain shows up and oneshots me. or pit vipers poison me to death. It's very dicey