Early-game help needed

[Long Sting]

Yeah that's true. The main thing that keeps me from playing it that carefully is that when I get to UD I still run into some pretty tough monsters, but maybe taking Heir/Speed/Hardy talent trees will ease that.

[JellySlayer]

Thanks a lot. With Hurthling I usually get 2 Talents so I'm assuming skipping Alert in favor of Hardy or Quick would be best. and then not dual wielding until I've used level ups to Needle and Sting. If it's not too much to ask, what is the best way to get Needle and Sting? I've never gotten further that ToEF with any character so the mid-late game is still a shot in the dark somewhat for me.

You can get Sting somewhat early in the game if you really want, though the battle to get it is very out-of-depth for a pre-ToEF character. Needle is a reward for doing a lategame quest.

[Long Sting]

You can get Sting somewhat early in the game if you really want, though the battle to get it is very out-of-depth for a pre-ToEF character. Needle is a reward for doing a lategame quest.

Right. Needle I know you get from killing Srraxxarrakex for Sharad-Waador, and Sting I believe is from the assassin prince which is in DDL, right? One thing that makes it tough is I really have no gauge of when I'm strong enough to fight mid-game stuff still. Like I killed Snake From Beyond relatively easily with some magic but ACW's energy breath ended me in like 1.5 turns. So especially with a Hurthling Assassin I'm thinking extreme caution is even more necessary. Do I have to just Kill the Assassin Prince to get Sting?

[Soirana]

Do I have to just Kill the Assassin Prince to get Sting?

Yes, but without Needle Sting is just average dagger with some defensive stats.

And if you can dispatch ancient blue wyrm you don't really need extra fire power. Char who can reliably clear blue dragon caves very likely can close the gate with or without twin daggers.

If you seeking the first win, dropping UD/HMW from visited locations list is not a bad idea. In my opinion they don't provide real pay-off.

[Long Sting]

So I put another character through the grinder and it went a lot better this time. I poisoned my best dagger and wielded that with a (+3, +1) shield I found and it did pretty well. Did Carpenter quest and went to SMC, and the downstairs were in the very next room, but a corpse fiend got next to me, and when I tried to shake him off on UD:1, it happened to generate a river in the stair room so there was no escape. I fought the corpse fiend through 2 prayers to full health and I didn't really hit it at all. even thrown daggers did almost nothing. Started with 2 Talents so I got Alert and Hardy, then I got Tough skin and Iron skin.

[Long Sting]

Yes, but without Needle Sting is just average dagger with some defensive stats.

And if you can dispatch ancient blue wyrm you don't really need extra fire power. Char who can reliably clear blue dragon caves very likely can close the gate with or without twin daggers.

If you seeking the first win, dropping UD/HMW from visited locations list is not a bad idea. In my opinion they don't provide real pay-off.

Yeah I need both to get use of it, so is it best to just not worry about either until I can actually acquire both? and I'm assuming BDC is much harder than the DDL. I really want first win but I'm just tired of the Wizards/Paladins/Priests/Rangers. The ideal would be getting first win with this character type. Yeah the HMV route gets some great loot but at this point considering I haven't beaten the game and how many characters die from it it just seems not worth it.

[zliplus]

Yeah, the HMV route you often should wait until later to access (do VD/DD first, get swimming, etc). It's very possible to get trapped in the HMV in the early game by rivers/rare monsters (vortices, gorgons), though it is possible to cross most rivers by praying. As a hurthling your low str makes early melee pretty hard, especially with daggers, but you should be able to throw rocks against most enemies.

[Long Sting]

Yeah, the HMV route you often should wait until later to access (do VD/DD first, get swimming, etc). It's very possible to get trapped in the HMV in the early game by rivers/rare monsters (vortices, gorgons), though it is possible to cross most rivers by praying. As a hurthling your low str makes early melee pretty hard, especially with daggers, but you should be able to throw rocks against most enemies.

Yeah that's what I've been doing. and the carrot juice has to be blessed to get Swimming, right? so if I'm not injured or starving do I just stand adjacent to the water and pray?

[JellySlayer]

Yeah that's what I've been doing. and the carrot juice has to be blessed to get Swimming, right? so if I'm not injured or starving do I just stand adjacent to the water and pray?

I think she means that to you swim (drown) partway across, take the damage till you will die the next turn, then pray for healing and keep going.

[Long Sting]

I think she means that to you swim (drown) partway across, take the damage till you will die the next turn, then pray for healing and keep going.

Oh that makes sense, definitely something to consider doing.