Ancient Member
Maybe try a few new things? Like pick pocketing? It's like a treasure roulette! Quite fun! Maybe explore the ice queen domain? Guaranteed artifacts you can get access to as soon as lvl 15 (theoretically)
I'm just saying, everyone has many reasons that keep them playing, maybe you'll find a new reason if you try a few new things.
Ancient Member
I am sad to hear that an exploit is the only thing that kept you motivated. Frankly, I sometimes struggle to be motivated by ADOM as well. But instead of doing an inherently hostile move such as a one-(wo?)man boycott, why not try to do a challenge game (such as Lithium Man) or otherwise spice up your experience with something you haven't tried before? Or just try another game if you don't feel like playing ADOM, but don't make an ideological war out of it, because that's silly.Originally Posted by fir
Senior Member
Trap trick was utter bullshit and fixing it was a good thing.
If you're complaining that maze is an actual maze and takes time to pass through, then i don't know what you want. It's a maze, okay?
Rewards were a bit overnerfed, that i agree.
Junior Member
Hell no I'm not complaining about the top trap type fix. It was bad (and maze skipping is the lightest case of exploiting it).
What I'm complaining about is the maze being harder in 1.2.0 than it was in 1.1.1 because of that fix so nerfing the rewards for them to be "on point" with 1.1.1 doesn't really work just because of how easy it was in 1.1.1. Having only the axe as the reward usually doesn't work for all the bother that the player has to overcome.
Jellyslayer's argument is "It's an optional location. If you don't want the axe just don't go there".
Thing is, if you're doing a quick run you don't visit the maze anyway. For long runs (like ultras) you either have the TotRR or a lot of other random items that are on par with the axe (or at least make the location not worth visiting) in pre64.
If you're doing an unoptimized run with stat exploiting etc (the main reason why it was nerfed: on paper it gave a huge boost to character power) there are a lot of other things to gain unlimited power from and maze isn't even the most overpowered source.
Last edited by Caleb; 03-15-2016 at 10:10 PM.
Ancient Member
Just to be clear, you wouldn't go to the maze if you were doing an ultra, even though it's a guaranteed source of 5 str, 3To, 6 Pe and a chance to get +1 in all other stats? Also a chance for a spellbook, and a chance for a random artifact (got one in last game r64). Also guaranteed source of 3 potions of cure corruption? C'mon! That's pretty damned awesome! There's now 3 guaranteed ways to get a ridiculous str score.
Junior Member
Well, that's one of the most misleading ways to explain the situation with the maze.
1. With magic mapping (only guaranteed source of which is bug village, another optional location. Which makes this location combo basically a "waste turns for minor stat scumming"-combo) the maze is a source of minor corruptions/stat drains (if one gets unlucky and melees a mage). Without magic mapping, stats drained might even not be able to compensate the rewards.
2. The amount of loot per turns spent isn't even high compared to other "optional locations", say, FGJC. The corruption is quite high though.
3. The corpse also gives 1 corruption for those stats so you can't really call that "a source of stats" since you have to pay a socr for that.
The axe is good. But, as I already mentioned, in long runs you are likely to find other good weapons or are going for a TotRR anyway. In short runs, going for the maze isn't worth it, you're more likely to visit other locations for random loot.
Last edited by Caleb; 03-16-2016 at 05:44 PM.
Ancient Member
1. Good point. But I havnt had an issue with stat drains, just use a wand to take out those bastard mino mages. Get a good bounce in, and they are dead in 1-2 turns.
2. True, but those are non-guaranteed sources of stat gains (well, except for str. That's one of the greatest places ever for strength gain) and the greater vault is often undead, which is insta death for many players.
3. The corruption gained from the corpse is a non-issue, and possibly even an asset, as you gain potions of cure corruption as part of the reward, which you can use to remove it if it's a bad one.
I agree with your final point, but I don't feel every character should go to the maze! When the rewards were amazing, I would go everytime, regardless of class or current weapon set-up, because all those gain attribute potions was too much to pass up! But with the rewards before, every character I had would end up with stats in the upper 60's by end game, half the time I would just say screw it to the final battle because literally nothing could kill me, and I no longer saw the point of playing. This needed to be done.
Junior Member
Well, the "not every character going into the maze" moment will be accomplished anyway as not every character will randomly get magic mapping (and if a character visits bugwl, which is not a location to clear for every char, just to visit the maze afterwards, it's probably something that SHOULD be rewarded, if anything). And bruteforcing the maze without mm makes the rewards/turns spent ratio just atrocious.
As for the FGJC greater vault often being the undead vault, it's just as random as all other greater vaults. You probably got unlucky.
Ancient Member
Every character can beat bug temple. Use wands of fireball. Guaranteed.
I was suggesting wands of Magic missle, not the spell.
I don't consider GUV's unlucky, I know full well it's random, I was saying for newer players that a GUV is a bit too much to handle for them.
Junior Member
Aw. I meant magic mapping which is guaranteed from bugwl. Magic missile isn't even the best spell to deal with mino mages anyway. Should've rephrased it probably instead of just using "mm".
As for the bug temple, "not a location to clear for every char" meaning that you have to be on the surface at the 22-30 interval, being able to clear bug temple without any risk of dying just to get the magic mapping scrolls. It's a big enough investment and a small enough chance of everything happening at once to suppose that it's going to make another location easy (not just "worth visiting", atm it's not worth visiting the maze without magic mapping as the reward/turn spent ratio is bad).
GUVs are never worth clearing (except for that one single time you want to do it as a personal achievement). Can't think of a character that would want to do that for random loot.
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