Speedruns with every class?

[JellySlayer]

Some figures from my most recent game that seem interesting/relevant.

I decided to count the average number of turns per dungeon level. A level, I pretty much defined as any area that I visit, either in passing or in exploration. So the Pyramid, say, is 5 levels--3 up and 2 down. My crude estimate is that my Ranger went through about 180 levels total, so an average of 27000/180=150 turns per level. Breaking the game down a little more fine-grained is more interesting though. I used:

~4000 turns to finish the UD (10 levels including the HMV).
~2500 to reach DT from here (11 levels including the wilderness)
~8500 turns to finish the ToEF from this point (~60 levels)
~12000 turns to finish the game (~100 levels)

In terms of turns per level, this breaks down to ~400 tpl in very early game, ~250 tpl in early-midgame, ~140 tpl in midgame, ~120 tpl in endgame. I suspect that the early/mid value of 200-250 tpl is probably about what I get on average for exploring a new level, and probably 60ish tpl is for explored levels, averaging out to 120. Early game is obviously quite a drag on turncount, but endgame is worse, if anything, since you have to cross almost 100 levels and there's only a handful that you care about. Both of my last two speedruns had ~12k endgame, from the looks of it. Getting teleportitis by ToEF is probably a huge boon to turncount... I'd imagine getting below 20k without it would be extremely tough for a non-caster.

[Blasphemous]

Interesting numbers, they give some rough estimation of how long each part of the game one could expect to take.
My archer is lvl 11, emerged from UD with 19/15 DV/PV and I'm standing at 4800 turns, but I also visited PC and VD, obtaining healing the lawful way.
Teleportitis, ugh... I might have to re-evaluate its usefulness just for the purpose of speedrunning. I can imagine how it has a huge potential to save many turns.

Jelly, did you do the Terrinyo dungeons or did you dive straight through UD?

[grobblewobble]

I can imagine how it has a huge potential to save many turns.

For speedrunning it is pure gold. And not only because of the obvious time saving on walking.

The thing is, when you hurry to reach goals like the Tower asap, you will find yourself running out of basic resources like booze, or at least they become real constraints. Teleportitis can help you deal with many problems when you don't have an abundance of basic stuff.. it lets you get past rivers, grab the mystic rewards easily and early, and so on..

I hope you do have control?

[Blasphemous]

I don't have control but neither do I have teleportitis. I'm just planning ahead when that inevitable pixie corpse shows up

[JellySlayer]

Interesting numbers, they give some rough estimation of how long each part of the game one could expect to take.
My archer is lvl 11, emerged from UD with 19/15 DV/PV and I'm standing at 4800 turns, but I also visited PC and VD, obtaining healing the lawful way.
Teleportitis, ugh... I might have to re-evaluate its usefulness just for the purpose of speedrunning. I can imagine how it has a huge potential to save many turns.

Jelly, did you do the Terrinyo dungeons or did you dive straight through UD?

That was a straight UD dive, but it was quite slow. I don't remember why it took so long.

[Blasphemous]

I'm trying to determine the value of RCT for speedruns.
With the inherent lack of items, due to skipping the dungeon exploration, a guaranteed demon slayer with good stats must be extremely useful against the wyrm.
I'm thinking that in this regard, raven has the obvious advantage over other starsigns.
I'm just wondering how lucky drops of weapons or missiles could offset not having the trident.

[grobblewobble]

The RCT is extremely good, especially for classes that don't excel at spellcasting. Raven is one of the best starsigns, no doubt about it. Candle (and tree, for the bonus to PV and To) can be worth considering as alternative if you want to emphasize early game survival, but long-term there is no contest.

[JellySlayer]

I'm trying to determine the value of RCT for speedruns.
With the inherent lack of items, due to skipping the dungeon exploration, a guaranteed demon slayer with good stats must be extremely useful against the wyrm.
I'm thinking that in this regard, raven has the obvious advantage over other starsigns.
I'm just wondering how lucky drops of weapons or missiles could offset not having the trident.

I find it to be pretty invaluable. For non-trolls (maybe mist elves?), it's pretty much guaranteed right when you hit the Tower, and you're usually hurting for a better weapon by that point unless you've got very lucky with drops. You could maybe get Big Punch or the Griff set as a decent alternative--I would intentionally mess up the AF/DH quest for a second random monster, which you can get pretty fast because it's usually just a troll or something. Total turncount for all the dwarf quests at least 3k turns or so though. Alternative is to hope that you find an eternium 2hander (not unusual) or something else decent in Darkforge. That's really the only good options for guaranteed weapons.

I've been experimenting with starts using the random dungeons instead of UD. Hope was to get an altar in Putrid Cave (the cavernous one) for quick (pre)crown. So far... it's pretty rough. Finding the place is a nuisance (wilderness encounters are annoyingly frequent when you're speedrunning ), and you need to be pretty buff to survive it--it's about the same DL as PC:5, maybe a touch higher. I was thinking it would be a good place for a paladin hoping for a <4k turn Justifier crowning, but I'm not sure that it's consistently survivable unless you are doing bloody dagger starts or something similar. Caster might be able to do it, but they're better off going to crumbling/ancient cave and hoping they can kill a few monsters--high spawn rate areas aren't that great for casters with low PP and no gear. Anybody who starts with scrolls can also do a decent crumbling cave run if they start with familiar summoning. All of this is in the annoyingly high risk category though.

[Soirana]

I've been experimenting with starts using the random dungeons instead of UD. Hope was to get an altar in Putrid Cave (the cavernous one) for quick (pre)crown. So far... it's pretty rough. Finding the place is a nuisance (wilderness encounters are annoyingly frequent when you're speedrunning )

For a class which starts with herbalism, how about skipping extra dungeons (I don't get what you are doing in UD at all) and harvesting herbs/xp in big room. Dwarf can easily sell enough curaria/alraunia/whatever to get crowned, by the time you emerge from UD.

[Tyrnyx]

I have this one that I wasn't trying for a speed-run and got juuust under 50K turns:

http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread...atling-Duelist

It's from a looong time ago but since you don't have one for a Duelist yet I thought I'd list this.

I also had an un-uploaded Ratling farmer win that came in at 49191 but since Jellyslayer crushed that score I wont even upload it. For the record I don't try for these speed runs, I'm just a naturally fast player - strangely enough I don't think I have the patience to speed run.

Also, just gonna say that the duelist one is pretty impressive since I did it wishless while the Ratling farmer I did I think had two early game wishes from the same pool (an early set of rings of regen and RDSM can reeaally speed things up).