Tips for Transitioning from Early to Mid Game

[twsanders]

Hey all,

I'm still fairly new to ADOM but have been putting in a lot of time over the past few weeks to a month. I'm slowly realizing that this game might take my entire summer to actually beat, but oh well... I'm ready to put in the time. What I'd like from some of the more experienced players is some tips on transitioning from the early game (SMC/UD, VD/DD, PC) to the mid-game (whatever that is because I don't know yet). I call that the "early game" for myself at least because it's after that point where I actually think I have a chance to have a decent life with my PC.

Currently, since I'm new I only play with a High Elven Archer that is either Candle or Raven born. If he is Candle, I typically lean towards the DD instead of VD and attempt to make use of herbs because it frustrates me when I find herbs without Herbalism and it becomes pointless to pick them up. Recently, I've also been traversing the entire UD after getting the waterproof blanket from the SMC. Is this a good idea? I often find that the loot you gain is great (I picked up a mithril shield my last playthrough) and the shortcut to HMV is nice later on (I think?).

My furthest playthrough so far has gotten me to the Arena (I only went to fight 5 or so because I was nervous about facing cats without having a means of teleportation). There raises the issue of how can I find blink dogs for teleport control? Even when I do find them and kill them they never leave their corpse for me to eat. I can't figure out how to do well in VDDL because I never have teleport control. The playthrough mentioned above I died on level 2 of the pyramid at level 13 because of poisoning and sickness.

Hopefully I've provided enough information to get some guidance (this is my first post ever so let me know if I need to provide more info for you all). I appreciate any guidance you all can give and sorry if this has been posted somewhere else. If that's the case, then I'll search through the forums for it.

Thanks guys!

[Soirana]

From the looks, I would suggest... learning basics, probably. Silfir's playthroughs are reasonable place to start if you short on ideas that you are lacking. (like this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgef...zzhDqb_AhMkbOv).

because it frustrates me when I find herbs without Herbalism and it becomes pointless to pick them up.

Conceptually, herbalism is optional, healing is not. Candle makes healing better (you get 2xhp from sam amount of skill compared to non-Candle born).

Most herbs work while cursed. And uncursing is not a problem in mid-game either.

My furthest playthrough so far has gotten me to the Arena The playthrough mentioned above I died on level 2 of the pyramid at level 13 because of poisoning and sickness.

That is so wrong... Main priority in mid-game is DwarfTown cause it is a source of guaranteed stuff (great artifact weapon, offensive nutball wand, storage level,etc ). Wand in particular makes Pyramid easy.

I would suggest playing non-elf(IMO, toughness is main survival factor in early, early-mid game) and focusing on some goals. (Like why you need 'to do well' in VDDL? you need detect items and dig a bit...).

[JellySlayer]

Hey all,

I'm still fairly new to ADOM but have been putting in a lot of time over the past few weeks to a month. I'm slowly realizing that this game might take my entire summer to actually beat, but oh well... I'm ready to put in the time. What I'd like from some of the more experienced players is some tips on transitioning from the early game (SMC/UD, VD/DD, PC) to the mid-game (whatever that is because I don't know yet). I call that the "early game" for myself at least because it's after that point where I actually think I have a chance to have a decent life with my PC.

Currently, since I'm new I only play with a High Elven Archer that is either Candle or Raven born. If he is Candle, I typically lean towards the DD instead of VD and attempt to make use of herbs because it frustrates me when I find herbs without Herbalism and it becomes pointless to pick them up. Recently, I've also been traversing the entire UD after getting the waterproof blanket from the SMC. Is this a good idea? I often find that the loot you gain is great (I picked up a mithril shield my last playthrough) and the shortcut to HMV is nice later on (I think?).

This isn't a bad strategy if you can survive it. Archer is strong enough that you can do UD without a huge amount of difficulty. For non-Candle, doing VD first is probably a better idea (scout for the SMC stairs if you want... long as they're close it shouldn't be a problem). Don't be afraid of doing the chaotic route to get Healing... it starts at a much higher value (60 instead of 20) and is much easier/safer.

PC is a good place to visit for Archers early, at least as far as the ant level. Thrown rocks or slings are a very effective early missile weapon (since arrows tend to be in short supply), and the ants should generate them in abundance if you just close yourself in a room for awhile and let them do some mining.

Personally, I do VD/PC/UD* or DD/PC/DD**/UD* then CoC.
*If SMC is possible for character at around level 8-10... stairs very close. Otherwise I just skip and go straight to CoC.
**On first pass, I don't kill the druid, just explore dungeon for loot. Second pass after PC I kill druid.

My furthest playthrough so far has gotten me to the Arena (I only went to fight 5 or so because I was nervous about facing cats without having a means of teleportation).

Stop. Stop. Stop. Kill all the cats. The master cat ring is a very late, optional endgame item. There is absolutely no reason you should be worrying about cats at this point (also the first kill thing, if you're doing that). The Guidebook is leading you astray by suggesting that this matters to you. I'm sure by this point you've already run into at least one situation where a character ended up dead because you were trying to avoid killing a cat and got yourself into worse trouble. It just isn't worth the effort given that the odds of you making it to the master cat at this stage in your career are really, really low (and even if you do get to him, you can always just kill him for some decent XP). So do the Arena if you want... although you may want to only do the first 19 fights, since the 20th fight has a decent chance of being an experienced ogre magus who can cause some serious grief to players without the ability to see invisible and/or resist cold. But if you need ~8k in extra gold, you can do the rest of the Arena if you want. If nothing else, the ratling dealers in the Arena can solve the food problem.

That said, teleport control is definitely worth getting. Blink dogs are random spawn. If you're lawful, they'll be non-hostile and maybe be harder to track down (or mess with your alignment if you're unlucky). If you can get a hostile one, then the best thing to do is name him (press n), go into a large room and wait around a bit. The named blink dog will summon friends. Kill those (the summoned ones don't usually summon more, so you need the original one... hence the naming thing). Keep killing summons till one drops a corpse. Without food preservation, it worst it should take maybe 40 kills--2 or 3 rounds of summons.

Your main goal for midgame, as Soirana says, is getting to Dwarftown. That's on D:9-11. The biggest threat to you is the Big Room, which is on D:6-7 or so. This should be crossed as quickly as possible... use a torch to extend sight, don't fight unless you have to (monsters will spawn faster than you can kill them)... if you hit a bad summoner or something, try to fight on the stairs and pull monsters to a different level.

Pyramid is available from levels 13-16. Generally, you should be aiming to visit near the high end of that range unless you have a fairly good idea of what you're doing. Definitely I would be visiting Dwarftown before Pyramid. No reason not to... you aren't in any rush.

I'm going to give a plug for the early game survival guide from the Wiki. It's not fully up-to-date with the most recent version, but it still has some very good tips. Not too spoily.

[twsanders]

First of all, I don't know if I'm formatting this reply correctly but hopefully it works out. Second, thanks for your advice on the order of what you do in the early game. Sometimes I definitely think that I do things in a little bit of a weird order which makes it harder so I appreciate that.

Stop. Stop. Stop. Kill all the cats. The master cat ring is a very late, optional endgame item. There is absolutely no reason you should be worrying about cats at this point (also the first kill thing, if you're doing that). The Guidebook is leading you astray by suggesting that this matters to you. I'm sure by this point you've already run into at least one situation where a character ended up dead because you were trying to avoid killing a cat and got yourself into worse trouble. It just isn't worth the effort given that the odds of you making it to the master cat at this stage in your career are really, really low (and even if you do get to him, you can always just kill him for some decent XP).

So, my only concern with this, is when I get to that point... I'd be pretty upset if I screwed it up by killing a cat. So that's the only reason I try to avoid it when possible. In most dungeons I can just lead them upstairs in Coward mode, outrun it, and then leave it up there. If the situation doesn't look good for me, I have killed them though. If I get to that point in the game, I would have liked to have not killed one. Idk, you're definitely right in saying that the guidebook has made me feel like this is a very important factor, even more so for the first kill thing. I think that one is pretty easy though, as I always kill some kind of NPC in the outlaw town.

Your main goal for midgame, as Soirana says, is getting to Dwarftown. That's on D:9-11. The biggest threat to you is the Big Room, which is on D:6-7 or so. This should be crossed as quickly as possible... use a torch to extend sight, don't fight unless you have to (monsters will spawn faster than you can kill them)... if you hit a bad summoner or something, try to fight on the stairs and pull monsters to a different level.

I'm going to give a plug for the early game survival guide from the Wiki. It's not fully up-to-date with the most recent version, but it still has some very good tips. Not too spoily.

Thanks for all of this as well. I've visited the Wiki A LOT to learn about different aspects of the game whenever I find a creature or something and the only thing that comes to mind is WTF is that. Haha.

I appreciate both of your input. Going to try a few more runs and will probably come back for some more advice after I finally make it to Dwarftown if I'm not sure where to go from that.

[JellySlayer]

So, my only concern with this, is when I get to that point... I'd be pretty upset if I screwed it up by killing a cat. So that's the only reason I try to avoid it when possible. In most dungeons I can just lead them upstairs in Coward mode, outrun it, and then leave it up there. If the situation doesn't look good for me, I have killed them though. If I get to that point in the game, I would have liked to have not killed one. Idk, you're definitely right in saying that the guidebook has made me feel like this is a very important factor, even more so for the first kill thing. I think that one is pretty easy though, as I always kill some kind of NPC in the outlaw town.

As far as first kill is concerned, you're honestly better off doing your first kill as a rat or jackal or something if you really care about it. At least it's plausible that you could get Courage at some point. If you haven't won the game at least once on a normal ending yet, you definitely shouldn't be worrying about any of the ultra ending stuff (including saving Khelevaster).

For cats, again, just don't worry about it. Even if you make it to that point in the game and miss the ring... so what? It's a great artifact, for sure, but most endgame characters are so strong that it actually makes a lot less of a difference than you'd expect. If you've already made it this far, the odds of winning the game are very good regardless of whether or not you have the ring.

Generally, I'd suggest focusing on achievable objectives. Have your goal to get to Dwarftown. Don't worry about anything that comes after that. Once you make it there, then pick another logical objective that immediately follows that. Don't worry about what the endgame will look like until you get there. If anything, the only long-term planning that you need to be thinking of is what you need to get passed the Tower of Eternal Flame, but even that is still a bit far off on your horizon, IMHO.

[auricbond]

Conceptually, herbalism is optional, healing is not.

Both are optional, but I'd take herbalism if I had to choose.

It just isn't worth the effort given that the odds of you making it to the master cat at this stage in your career are really, really low (and even if you do get to him, you can always just kill him for some decent XP).

It makes me wonder what other peoples playstyles are that they can 'just kill' the second-most dangerous boss in the game. Granted he's never killed me, but that's because I made sure to be super ready and there were still a few close calls.

[_Ln_]

It makes me wonder what other peoples playstyles are that they can 'just kill' the second-most dangerous boss in the game. Granted he's never killed me, but that's because I made sure to be super ready and there were still a few close calls.

Agreeing on this one. There is no need to obsess over RoTMC, but cat lord is a huge risk for unprepared/badly prepared/not experienced in obscure mechanics.

[Soirana]

It makes me wonder what other peoples playstyles are that they can 'just kill' the second-most dangerous boss in the game. Granted he's never killed me, but that's because I made sure to be super ready and there were still a few close calls.

Booze+wand of fireball. Backup with few healing potions.
Booze is unlimited and wand is one of DT gifts.

You don't have to fight him in many cases level is just bypassable with magic map/detect monsters.
The person who never saw Dwarf Town really should not worry about him, opening HMV passage or ultra related stuff (like first kill). Max of worries should be ToEF.

[Blasphemous]

I agree that the cat lord is a no brainer, he's easily skippable with wands of digging and monster detection.
I also agree that inexperienced players should completely ignore no-kill-cat rule because it will cost them more than it's worth, piling on top of all the other problems/risks.

As an archer I would have to suggest farming barbarians for arrows, which will inevitably yield several arrows of hunting.
These make blink dog corpses drop much sooner without food preservation.
Herbalism is also more useful in my opinion than healing, especially if you happen to obtain gardening.
Healing is nice but not mandatory for candle chars.

One of the frequent early game strategies for chars that need herbs for healing is to rush to the big room asap.
There are guaranteed herbs there; the sooner you start collecting them, the more you will be able to increase the skill upon level ups in the early game.
Just picking up one herb can make a big difference during skill incrementation, anywhere between 5-20 extra points.

For starting chars I would also advocate to visit as many caves as possible - just the first level.
You can get an early surge of power, doable for an archer or you can find herbs very early, like in DDL which is a rather low DL place.
Plus, you might find shops, tension rooms of easy meat, altars, pools...

[twsanders]

Hello again,

After a day of struggling with the Elven Archer thing (basically all of my games ended before level 10) I have decided to transition to something that I've read is a little bit easier. I'm playing with a Drakeling Healer right now. However, there is so much that I don't know about these damn herbs growing in the dungeons. Do I just pick all of them every time I come upon them? That's what I've been doing up to this point. I feel like I'm supposed to pick all of them from what I've read and then later on plant them in some farming fashion in order to grow the good stuff?

I have taken the DD quest in order to receive gardening from the druid since I already know Herbalism. Basically, I haven't been able to find a great resource for information on all these herbs and things. The Wiki helps some but doesn't really give advice on the best thing that I should be doing with all of these things. I'm only on UD:1 and I have a TON of herbs already. I use my Herbalism skill on each plant before I pick any of them because I think that's what I'm supposed to do.

Basically I'm really lost on the whole herb thing and could just use some general advice...