IGB update

[IGB]

Hello there!

As promised long ago, the aim is to update the Improved Guidebook for versions after the resurrection - which I call collectively ADOM R+, or simply R+. I have already started, the manual and chapters 0.1 and 0.2 are already updated. What do you think about the format? (boxing in magenta). I still want the R+ info to be separated somehow from ADOM 1.1.1, which existed as the latest version for about 10 years.

I'm using the Wiki as primary source of information - apart from in-game testing, but the information provided here is often vague or simply missing. Unfortunately there seems to be no other source for ADOM R+. So I'm missing a lot of information, such as new monsters corpse effects for 0.3.3, the preferred sacrifice modifiers for Mist Elves and Ratlings for 0.2.3.3.1, the class aptitudes for Chaos Knights and Duelists for 0.4.5. Also the history messages effects for 0.1.5 would be nice. Then of course information about the new monsters and items for the appendices. And there is a lot more. Additionally I fear that a lot of the information which was true for 1.1.1 might not be accurate anymore. Please, if there are any competent code divers your help would be very appreciated.

Lately I have been contacted by some guy called Lucas Siqueira, he created a Single-file Improved Guidebook - you can find a link to his effort in Appendix Q. Seriously though, I think this is maybe a step back. Why single file? It might help a bit for editing - such as easier search and replace, but from the user's POV it's simply more cumbersome. He also tries to mix the manual into it - and I think a manual as a separate document is preferable. Still some features are nice, like mixing in the colored maps or boxing of monster stats and artifacts, but too minor in my opinion, as providing the R+ info is more important now.

Even if you are not a code diver (such as myself), any comment or suggestion is valuable. Thanks for attention!

--
find the IGB here: http://igb.epizy.com

[Soirana]

I'm using the Wiki as primary source of information - apart from in-game testing, but the information provided here if often vague or simply missing. Unfortunately there seems to be no other source for ADOM R+.

Please, if there are any competent code divers your help would be very appreciated.

I think wiki is perfect format and it actually respects Creator attitude (more or less) on code diving. Thus, I suggest for anyone who wants to help concentrate on wiki.

IGB (and original guidebook) seems to be complete waste of time at this point.

p.s.

the preferred sacrifice modifiers for Mist Elves and Ratlings for 0.2.3.3.1,

http://ancardia.wikia.com/wiki/Altars#Item_sacrifices.

Shows up certain guys dedication clearly.

[IGB]

I think wiki is perfect format and it actually respects Creator attitude (more or less) on code diving. Thus, I suggest for anyone who wants to help concentrate on wiki.
IGB (and original guidebook) seems to be complete waste of time at this point.

With all due respect, I have to disagree. Let let me list reasons why is guidebook better than wiki:

1. Ads. The wiki is full of them even on sides. Yes, IGB has some too, but only small one on top and bottom, not on sides.
2. You can download IGB and view it offline, and completely without ads. You can't download wiki.
3. You can read it like a book to get the feel about the game. You can't do that with the wiki - separate articles for every item!? 1551 articles?
4. Code dived = accurate information. For dubious reasons, the wiki doesn't contain that enough, though concepts such as danger level surely wouldn't exist without some code diving.
5. More stuff on one page. Basically GB has fewer longer pages, allowing for better comparison (ie. all wearable items on one page. etc). Though the concept of single file is just too much in this regard.
6. Overall, the guidebook provides much cleaner stuff and organization, it gets you to the point without extensive searching and browsing through multiple results. It's superior to wiki to use when playing the game (on second monitor).

That doesn't mean wiki doesn't have its advantages, too, but to say one or the other is "complete waste of time" is definitely complete nonsense. Just some may prefer gb, some wiki, and IMO it's good that both exist.

p.s.
the preferred sacrifice modifiers for Mist Elves and Ratlings for 0.2.3.3.1,
http://ancardia.wikia.com/wiki/Altars#Item_sacrifices.

Was referring to MODIFIERS, not the items types. The 1/3 increase mentioned is wrong, some types have even *4 piety gain MODIFIER.

[Soirana]

That doesn't mean wiki doesn't have its advantages, too, but to say one or the other is "complete waste of time" is definitely complete nonsense. Just some may prefer gb, some wiki, and IMO it's good that both exist.

It's good that Andy Williams guidebook and wiki exists true. I can't say same about IGB, which has neither original content, nor any purpose (except serving as an example how to misrepresent code dived info).

For example, AW insisted that DL as an idea was not from code. Most (not all) of wikis DL entries arrived from scripted item creation scrolls (there is links to spreadsheets in older articles).

I think, popping into Thomas forums and asking for code divers is good example of what people should expect from you. But, well, it's your time to waste so feel free to do it.

p.s. 1/3 modifier is not wrong, it's just calculated from player and not from code perspective. ~100k gold to crown normally, ~70k for dwarf is perceived as 30% discount. Or you can thinks 70k is worth 1.5x at ~105k... (other than dwarfs modifiers has no practical applications (hobbits with cooked corpses maybe) since stuff either has to low base value or is better sold for cash - I think main point is that gold is overvalued in sacrifices)

But since I recall previous IGB entries on stuff like girdles of weight...

p.s. http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Helpatabase_download
Wikia is sort of downloadable, I never tried but the offline copy should be without ads.

[IGB]

Sorry Soirana, I don't want to bloat this thread with useless stuff. Seems you have nothing to provide, so I suggest you take your (trolling) attitude elsewhere.

I am really looking for code divers, useful suggestions and comments for the Improved Guidebook. If you think it is a waste of time and serves no purpose, then just please ignore this discussion.

[Soirana]

I am really looking for code divers, useful suggestions and comments for the Improved Guidebook. If you think it is a waste of time and serves no purpose, then just please ignore this discussion.

Since Creator clearly stated his position on code dissection, I suggest you just please ignore forums belonging to him.

[IGB]

Since Creator clearly stated his position on code dissection, I suggest you just please ignore forums belonging to him.

I believe this is a myth. The Creator maybe stated somewhat negative view on code diving, and that was more in fear from clones, not documentation, some 15 years ago on RGRA. And you could find neither that nor any more recent statement. So please, until there is clear and recent statement from TB, you can ignore this thread.

Waiting for someone else's comment, preferably on the Guidebook and its update to Resurrection, not on Soirana.

[Blank4u47]

I quickly glanced through a few parts of the guidebook, it's mostly accurate, but there's a few things I'd like to see corrected, I'll list them along with the reasons later when I have actual spare time.

[Soirana]

I believe this is a myth. The Creator maybe stated somewhat negative view on code diving, and that was more in fear from clones, not documentation, some 15 years ago on RGRA. And you could find neither that nor any more recent statement.

Dear, Pavel, please fuck yourself into your own improved ass.(and stuff your 15+ of lies in there too)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...M/gbcU2tQCuLwJ

In particular (as far a s I get it was phone Call with Malte):

3. Reverse Engineering

Regarding this topic, Thomas stated his opinion very clearly: He does
not want people to disassemble ADOM for any purpose.
...
Finally, Thomas is also very much against disassembling the executable
to discover game mechanics and secrets.

People, at the time took that several notches too seriously, so one can be sure it was not about "the clones" as you should be aware. Up to the point were something like adombot was nearly completely removed from internet (the latest versions in particular).

[IGB]

Almost 12 years old and not authentic. The readme1st.txt file distributed with ADOM (which is otherwise full of license terms, copyrights etc) does not state that disassembling of the code to provide documentation isn't allowed. Nowhere on the official ADOM website you can find that. However in the documentation section, there is a link to HTML ADOM Manual, which is actually part of the Improved Guidebook.
http://www.ancardia.com/documentation.html

So Soirana, until there is recent statement from TB, just finally shut up.

Dear, Pavel, please fuck yourself into your own improved ass.(and stuff your 15+ of lies in there too)

And at the very least, stop being rude.