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Thread: IGB update

  1. #21

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    soirana please stop ruining every thread you find controversial

  2. #22

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    fwiw my favorite 3 parts of igb are the dwarf trainer stats, weapon/armor prefix/suffix, and i used corpse effects there until wiki came out. (even though oracle gave no learning last time when low...). i do prefer the layout from it. more links to navigate around might be nice?

    i do hope people would calm down about this. everyone knows its andys gb with a few extras? and author not hiding that, or making money off it? there are a million things in life to get more worked up over than a free adom guide

  3. #23
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    Having been plaguarised myself in the past, I fully understand any outrage caused by IGB if it 'cites from' AG or other sources without expressed permission. If there's money involved or not is irrelevant. Still got some reading to do on this google discussion link but so far it seems absurd to see IGB being a thing again.
    Last edited by Couchfighter; 09-18-2016 at 12:51 AM. Reason: Words hard!

  4. #24

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    i understand the outrage too but it's not thought out. if someone took a guide for another game i spent 2 months making the v5 of and they made an improved version that said it was just my guide with a few things they found i'd be grateful instead of jealous or mad or whatever word. i guess difference is whether or not you're proud of helping people enjoy adom or if you just want to be the only one?
    i dont see how andy loses any credit or credibility or anything from the IGB, what are people defending?
    Last edited by Mr.PelicanPants; 09-18-2016 at 01:53 AM. Reason: oops phone

  5. #25

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    pla·gia·rism
    ˈplājəˌrizəm/Submit
    noun
    the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

    IGB author is not passing it off as his own, he's saying he added some links and info to andy's work.
    he did nothing wrong but everyone in that thread just called him names and proceeded to talk about morals lol

  6. #26
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    If we're talking about my own example, I used the correct word. A writer for a commercial online publication literally copy pasted pages of text from me without even bothering with minor 'touch ups' and published it as his own work, without asking, getting permission or giving credit.

    I will admit it is perhaps not the right word for this case. Is it better if we call it stealing instead, what IGB is doing by using other's content without permission ? We can do that.

    It also doesn't matter what others might think of how the creators of the original guide contents should be used. If they don't want it to be open source and free for all to do what they want with then that is their right, without needing further explanation or excuses.

    Based on this, there has absolutely been significant wrongdoing.

  7. #27

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    that idea only lasts so far as well i think (see: every remix ever, every composer rolling in his grave a billion times...)

    edit: sry about publication though thats dumb

    edit2: telling people they're not allowed to edit some .html files they saved sounds a bit more 'wrong' than finding a good guide and copying it and adding a few pages, doesnt it?

    edit3: is it because IGB site has ads for profit? is that the only reason? (it would be the only legit one i can think of but i didn't think of it until now. otherwise IGB author isn't gaining anything so it couldnt be called stealing. i know money shouldn't make a difference but it does, otherwise something like 'stealing' would have no grounds)

    edit4: even then it seems like the main intent is to have a helpful guide. did andy ever personally ask him to take the site down or remove his guidebook info for any reason?? or is this just a bunch of people being nasty to this guy for the 'fun' of it...
    Last edited by Mr.PelicanPants; 09-18-2016 at 04:18 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank4u47 View Post
    Thanks for the link, it allowed me to be more informed about this. I'm not still fully decided on this, as there appears to be an enormous wall of text involved. Just curious though, Has anyone actually contacted AW about this?
    How do you think original guidebook ended being under copyright in the first place? go to someplace which has rgra archives (like google groups at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!fo...roguelike.adom) and search up IGB.

    Honestly, I think more than half problem was in Pavel's behavior, which you can see here in action. popping out and pretending he never heard about code diving and he never cared about anything else except about 'documentation'.
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.PelicanPants View Post
    edit4: even then it seems like the main intent is to have a helpful guide. did andy ever personally ask him to take the site down or remove his guidebook info for any reason?? or is this just a bunch of people being nasty to this guy for the 'fun' of it...
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.roguelike.adom/andy$20williams|sort:relevance/rec.games.roguelike.adom/iarXOqEv7KU/uZqixLNf7roJ
    somewhere around 8 post Andy clearly asks to take it down (and presumably at the time Pavel was inserting adds, while IGB had very little 'improvement').
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  10. #30

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    oh i see. idk how thatttt all started (just by people disagreeing about html? idk lol. is this really just a petty thing dragged on for years)

    i guess copyright's a deep discussion but i did lose respect for it after pharmaceutical companies sued african people for copying HIV medicine in multiple situations. for trying to stay alive? it's like telling your starving neighbor "i know you want to eat to live and all but that's not just any apple, that's a special jumbo red delicious i grew, so you need to pay up." they cared more about their share of the money and their exact pill version than people's lives so i agree with pavel about . . . disagreeing with a lot of copyright, esp about bigger ideas like the cure for cancer statement. at least i can see how it's symbolic of something that holds people back rather than helps.

    and for the resttttt idk respect is a mutual thing. i just read these and see 10 posts in a row calling him a pig or cancer or asshole scum of the earth or whatever thing and then right after "if you were a gentleman you'd take it down" but i dont see IGB author insulting ppl here- and yeah i don't see how someone can feel like a 'gentleman' or respect the 'dont copy this ok' request of a group of people who just hurl insults.
    (also yeah none of this is stopping anyone from just using/updating the AW guidebook normally?)

    i guess most people feel differently about this but just my opinion from reading stuff a decade later
    and again like people said 11 years ago just use which info source you like best and don't have to bash other people over it

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