Paragon of Order questions

[Booster]

After seeing the new additions made over the past 6 months I was thinking of trying out a Paragon of Order play through and I had a few questions:

1. Is it possible to visit Rolf without committing a chaotic act? IIRC one map piece is in grave - are there any pets that can dig up a grave/tile for you?
2. If you close the gate and leave the CoC, is it possible to somehow visit D:50 again?
3. Are there any future plans for implementing an Ultra victory without requiring the Crown/Medal of Chaos?

[blunk]

After seeing the new additions made over the past 6 months I was thinking of trying out a Paragon of Order play through and I had a few questions:

1. Is it possible to visit Rolf without committing a chaotic act? IIRC one map piece is in grave - are there any pets that can dig up a grave/tile for you?
2. If you close the gate and leave the CoC, is it possible to somehow visit D:50 again?
3. Are there any future plans for implementing an Ultra victory without requiring the Crown/Medal of Chaos?

1. I don't think pets dig down but I've never tried. Probably no.
2. no, stairs revert when you exit D49.

[Soirana]

After seeing the new additions made over the past 6 months I was thinking of trying out a Paragon of Order play through and I had a few questions:

1. Is it possible to visit Rolf without committing a chaotic act? IIRC one map piece is in grave - are there any pets that can dig up a grave/tile for you?
2. If you close the gate and leave the CoC, is it possible to somehow visit D:50 again?
3. Are there any future plans for implementing an Ultra victory without requiring the Crown/Medal of Chaos?

I don't think any monster digs holes... trapmaster? but most likely would not place trap on grave (I would not expect rap creation woprk either, but well, I have not checked).

If you properly close gate no way you getting back, if you unproperly close... no way you getting back to d47... The problem is d48 has just one staircase.

Ultra can be done (and was completed) in combo with being Paragon. One just needs to get Crone to d48. (go to d50 get girdle, get back do stupid stuff and make a girdle into killing squeeze machine).

[Booster]

Ultra paragon can't be done anymore - AFAIK GB won't follow you out of any elemental temple according to the new logic. In any event, I'm not looking for a loophole to allow an ultra but lose paragon - I want to try and keep paragon and slay as much evil as I can be that Andy or the new ultimate dungeon boss.

I tried last time I played to take a CK and make him into an ultra paragon but that experiment failed - my rationale was to keep him at the starting -10000 alignment until I complete the final GB quest (so my alignment technically won't drop) which involved completing that before saving Khelly, then convert to L+ all the while not killing lawfuls or committing other chaotic acts. I'm 99% sure I stuck to it but the girdle didn't spawn upon reaching D50.... my guess is the the paragon logic constantly checks to see if your alignment drops and if so disqualifies you, and the although the display alignment's range is from +6k to -10k, you can drop below -10k momentarily but it's then quickly set to -10k.

[Grond]

Ultra paragon can't be done anymore - AFAIK GB won't follow you out of any elemental temple according to the new logic.

It's still possible, and in fact has been done in recent versions. Gaab'Baay can be gotten past elemental temples with follower storage, making sure she never has room to appear on a temple level.

[Soirana]

I tried last time I played to take a CK and make him into an ultra paragon but that experiment failed - my rationale was to keep him at the starting -10000 alignment until I complete the final GB quest (so my alignment technically won't drop) which involved completing that before saving Khelly, then convert to L+ all the while not killing lawfuls or committing other chaotic acts.

I am a good deal rusty on the topic... assuming char produces farmer corpse... are other parts of Crone quest chain deemed chaotic?

[Grond]

You take an alignment hit when you finish her quest chain.

[Booster]

Yep, the final part of her quest gives a -1000 or -500 alignment hit. Everything up until then is manageable.

Re: Getting GB past the elemental temple that sounds like a lot of work and not really feasible... anyway what I was trying to achieve is to be the paragon and somehow still get the scroll of omnipotence thinking there might be some way to use it.

[Grond]

Re: Getting GB past the elemental temple that sounds like a lot of work and not really feasible...

You just need wand of door creation and a companion. Surround temple upstairs with closed doors so she can't show up when you enter the level, swap companion onto stairs so she can't arrive later.

[Soirana]

You take an alignment hit when you finish her quest chain.

Will fill RTF, since this is somewhat absurd (I do get why it is chaotic, but locking paragons out of ultras is not.)

You just need wand of door creation and a companion. Surround temple upstairs with closed doors so she can't show up when you enter the level, swap companion onto stairs so she can't arrive later.

I miss something. Can't she arrive at char position after swapping? (and if everything around is closed doors... where does companion come from?)