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Thread: Do wyrms have wings?

  1. #1
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    Default Do wyrms have wings?

    I was reading the descriptions of great stone wyrms and comparing them with tile images.

    My belief has always been that dragons are more like lizards (4 limbs) with wings while wyrms are closer to snakes, with no appendages.
    Tiles seem to support that conclusion yet the monster memory of a great stone wyrm contradicts its tile appearance - "(...) and the gusts of wind created by its incredibly massive wings (...)".
    Apparently great white wyrms suffer from the same inconsistency although at least in that description, the wings are "tattered and broken", with no sign of wings on the tile image.
    No mention of wings for red, black or karmic wyrms though.
    Blue wyrms however are mentioned as serpentine, while the great grey wyrm is described as possessing muscled legs, claws and wings.
    Tile appearance for all indicates no wyrms have any limbs or wings.

    So which is it? Or perhaps this is a bug? Or an oversimplification of the GUI?
    Last edited by Blasphemous; 04-02-2019 at 04:10 PM.
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

  2. #2
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    Monster memory is the source of truth here. The tiles are simplified palette swaps because Ravenmore doesn't have the time to draw and animate 600 highly-detailed unique sprites.

  3. #3
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    Then I have to ask again, from the perspective of lore within the game: what's the difference between wyrms and dragons?
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous View Post
    ...
    My belief has always been that dragons are more like lizards (4 limbs) with wings while wyrms are closer to snakes, with no appendages.
    ...
    This is the common understanding. Also supported by https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/wyrm:
    Noun

    wyrm (plural wyrms)

    1. (mythology) A huge limbless and wingless serpent
    2. (fantasy) A vague term, but it usually refers to huge limbless and wingless serpents
    3. (synonym) A sea serpent
    The monster descriptions were a community effort however, so they're inconsistent by default. But I think that's one of the things that makes ADOM so special, because it shows how it managed to inspire people to contribute early on.
    gremlin - karmic lizard, dark orc, acid vortex, staring eye - dragon turtle, fairy dragon, ogre lord, minotaur emperor - pit viper, orc butcher - greater mimic, dark elven wizard, carrion crawler, dwarven child - imp - ochre jelly, dark elven archer, king cobra, goodwife - kobold shaman, magebane eye, floating eye, quickling king - giant centipede, hill orc sergeant, mimic hivemind, greater claw bug, brown bear, large gnoll - giant bee queen, giant ant warrior, shadow centipede, kobold

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous View Post
    Then I have to ask again, from the perspective of lore within the game: what's the difference between wyrms and dragons?
    In ADOM lore, one is the mother of the other.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

  6. #6
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    This seems oddly consistent with Tolkien's mythology, which as we know was a big inspiration for Adom.
    There, Glaurung is the first dragon and it's a wingless terrestial beast. Later, Ancalagon was the greatest of winged dragons, bred more or less from Glaurung's line.
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

  7. #7
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    I always thought lizards were smaller versions of dragons and therefore in the "dragon" monster category, but the Wiki puts lizards in the "animals" monster category. And here I thought I got the "kill a dragon" achievement on Steam for killing a lizard. Guess my memory is at fault here.
    Anyway, to me it seems a bit weird that wyrms, who have no wings and no limbs, are faster and more dangerous then dragons, who have both wings and limbs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous View Post
    Then I have to ask again, from the perspective of lore within the game: what's the difference between wyrms and dragons?
    As far as I understand a wyrm is an old man version of dragon in Adom. Wiser, older sometimes physically degraded (as per white wyrm description) individuals of the same species.
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  9. #9
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    Perhaps vestigial?
    Or imagine the wings stayed the size of a normal dragon, while the body grew unbounded?

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