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  1. #11
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    I must say that it really is quite astonishing how well-mannered the vast majority of posters on this forum are, and everything has been fine until the damnable shoe-monger appeared. Granted, I also think it would be great to have someone sticky threads such as "The 'treasure hunter' talent sucks", "Guidebook work" or "Minor things, but undocumented".
    Silfir is an experienced veteran, an active forum member and a trustworthy chap in my eyes, so I say he'd make a fine moderator.

    I choose you, SILFIR!
    SILFIR used BANHAMMER!
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    Wild spambot fainted...
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  2. #12
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    Thread-locking and editing other people's posts is a no-no in my book too. The editing especially - For me written text has somewhat of a sacred quality, and I hate mucking with other's writing without their consent with the endless burning rage of Cacame Awemedinade (on a wiki, I always remember the mantra "be bold" and I can work under the assumption that I have consent, as after all anyone can edit, so I can too). I would also only correct thread titles if asked to do so - I think it's rude, and with all the people opening threads and mistyping the titles that would be a lot of work to be rude about.

    Not sure if I agree to your concerns about stickies - your points on competition threads have merit, but it could be nice, for instance, to sticky those long time threads that try to keep track of things in the first post and that are informative to any new user and constantly need linking to. I'm thinking, for instance, of the "ADOM Links" thread, the "Ways to Die" thread and most importantly the thread concerning jaakkos' server, (and those Necropassion wrote about while I was writing) as I think it's still something new members only realize even exists after a couple days or even weeks of reading threads and posting, which is a shame considering how awesome it is. Those are threads that in my book could stay stickied indefinitely. Thomas could do it himself, of course, though that would require checking the threads for content and getting a bit more involved than he reasonably has time for...

    Hmmm... I actually like the idea of being a secret undercover moderator. Like the resident assassin. I lurk in the dark, slit the throats of dreadful criminal shoe fetishists and disappear into the night, leaving no trace of my doing, living in obscurity... Because I am not your hero. I am a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knife! Okay, I'll stop. Seriously, I think Epythic is right. If at all possible, the moderator should receive no special title at all - no one's opinion has merit over another's, and no one should feel like that's the case.

    (Except, of course, the opinions of Grey and gut. They are worth less than worthless. But I think everyone knows that here.)

    (EDIT: Am I the only one who smells "shoes" becoming a forum in-joke in the next couple weeks or months?)
    Last edited by Silfir; 09-01-2009 at 11:58 PM.
    ADOM Guides - whatever you wanted to know about playing a certain class, but have been afraid to ask!

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  3. #13
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    I say we keep it as simple as we can, so just the ability to delete threads, and the mod will only use it if the post is obviously spam. We're doing just fine without sticky threads. Searching the forum for the relevant, yet older thread is very easy for those of us who know what to look for, and there's no huge stream of new people joining the forums and asking loads of questions that've already been answered in the past, or opening up the TH debate, or asking about the server.

    I'm okay with any proposal, as long as that person is online often enough to be able to keep things in check around here. Perhaps we could have TB create a MOD account and give the password to several of the long-time users who are often online. A bit like the community e-mail. Heck, you could even let every 'Ancient Member' know it and use it if spam appears. People who've written 300 posts (that's the threshold for Ancient, and 100 for Senior, right?) here are probably not going to go about doing idiotic stuff.

  4. #14
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    I personally enjoy the recent shoe-related discussion and think it should be encouraged to flourish more. Who knows what insights may come about. Embrace the footwear and you will satisfy your sole.

    On a more serious not, I'd be quite happy to volunteer for moderator myself. I don't see any reason why we need just one either. However I also agree with Epythic that other than the spam there is no need for a moderator - things like mending misspelled threads titles is unnecessary luxury. The actual moderator should not be advertised or labeled as such either - no extra forum title or anything like that. It's purely a janitorial role.
    Platinum Edition ADOMer
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    I'd be quite happy to volunteer for moderator myself. I don't see any reason why we need just one either. However I also agree with Epythic that other than the spam there is no need for a moderator - things like mending misspelled threads titles is unnecessary luxury. The actual moderator should not be advertised or labeled as such either - no extra forum title or anything like that. It's purely a janitorial role.
    Agreed. So why ask TB to make one of us a janitor when he can simply give us the mop?

  6. #16
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    Well, we can also decide a moderator is unnecessary luxury - after all, we can make fun of the shoe threads while we're waiting for Thomas and they're not overwhelming everything yet. We're annoyed, nothing more.

    I don't know about you, but I've been annoyed about other things too. Hunting for old threads for the umpteenth time and making a typo in a thread title for instance. Stickying the thread for jaakkos' server for instance would be a great service to any newbie (and believe it or not, I believe newbie friendliness should not be considered "unnecessary luxury"). I know, we've been having our forum experience uphill in the snow both ways for ages and it's been fun, and we do get new people... It's just I really find it inane to have to dig up or bump threads.

    I think some sort of mod account with a password to pass around isn't the best idea ever. You could just make the people you're going to give the password to invisible moderators instead for the same benefit and a greater degree of control - I mean, how are you going to assign responsibility if a fuckup happens with that shared mod account? I mean, for this thing to make sense a moderator would have to be able to both delete spam threads and ban the spambots - and this is the same as the power to delete all threads and ban any user. That's a lot of power, and I'd find it hard to imagine Thomas would give it to just anyone. In fact, I already find it somewhat hard to believe he would give it to any one of us. Any kind of high post number and "Ancient Member" title notwithstanding, he doesn't know us. It's quite likely he'll be asking a close friend with some freetime to watch over the forum in his absence in the future instead. And that's a good thing, because if I had written a game like ADOM and were the owner of a forum as awesome as this one you can be sure I'd ask friends of mine first, regardless of how swell the forum guys are, simply because you need to be able to trust that person you give this power as much as humanly possible.

    We're not talking about a janitor or a mop here. We're talking about a guy who is judge and executioner rolled into one. That's why I said I'm not sure if a vote makes sense yet. We have to see how Thomas feels about this first.
    Last edited by Silfir; 09-02-2009 at 03:17 AM.
    ADOM Guides - whatever you wanted to know about playing a certain class, but have been afraid to ask!

    Check out my youtube channel to see my ADOM videos, including a completed playthrough of the game. I try to give instructions, so if you want to see some place you haven't been before and get some hints on how to deal with it, this might help! There's also some other games featured there that you might find interesting.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    I'm thinking, for instance, of the "ADOM Links" thread, the "Ways to Die" thread and most importantly the thread concerning jaakkos' server,
    Maybe we should just put that in the wiki? Where everyone can edit as needed?

    Way better than the current model where someone "has" the first post and makes changes when others request them -- what if the thread starter disappears?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    Hmmm... I actually like the idea of being a secret undercover moderator. Like the resident assassin. I lurk in the dark, slit the throats of dreadful criminal shoe fetishists and disappear into the night, leaving no trace of my doing, living in obscurity... Because I am not your hero. I am a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knife
    I know that was a joke, but still this is an important point. The moderator list *should* be published somewhere. (Just hidden enough that it doesnt influence conversations too much)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    (Except, of course, the opinions of Grey and gut. They are worth less than worthless. But I think everyone knows that here.)
    Btw, I wonder what happens if one of them but not the other becomes a mod? ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    (EDIT: Am I the only one who smells "shoes" becoming a forum in-joke in the next couple weeks or months?)
    Shoe knows...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    I say we keep it as simple as we can, so just the ability to delete threads, and the mod will only use it if the post is obviously spam. We're doing just fine without sticky threads. Searching the forum for the relevant, yet older thread is very easy for those of us who know what to look for, and there's no huge stream of new people joining the forums and asking loads of questions that've already been answered in the past, or opening up the TH debate, or asking about the server.
    Or we just put those useful pieces of information in a more central place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    Perhaps we could have TB create a MOD account and give the password to several of the long-time users who are often online. A bit like the community e-mail. Heck, you could even let every 'Ancient Member' know it and use it if spam appears. People who've written 300 posts (that's the threshold for Ancient, and 100 for Senior, right?) here are probably not going to go about doing idiotic stuff.
    You must be drunk. What if the password is leaked? Wouldnt be too much of a problem for the gmail account (everyone can register a new one), but for the forums? Ehm... no?
    And postcount says nothing. Absolutely nothing. Write that behind your ears. Automatically giving permissions based on post count will just encourage people to make more "lol!!!"-type posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    On a more serious not, I'd be quite happy to volunteer for moderator myself. I don't see any reason why we need just one either.
    True that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    Well, we can also decide a moderator is unnecessary luxury - after all, we can make fun of the shoe threads while we're waiting for Thomas and they're not overwhelming everything yet. We're annoyed, nothing more.
    Yes. But I'd say the percentage of people annoyed with the spam is far higher than the percentage of people annoyed with typos in thread titles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    I don't know about you, but I've been annoyed about other things too. Hunting for old threads for the umpteenth time and making a typo in a thread title for instance. Stickying the thread for jaakkos' server for instance would be a great service to any newbie (and believe it or not, I believe newbie friendliness should not be considered "unnecessary luxury"). I know, we've been having our forum experience uphill in the snow both ways for ages and it's been fun, and we do get new people... It's just I really find it inane to have to dig up or bump threads.
    You are doing it wrong. I think. Use the wiki, now that there is one (and one that even has some kind of crazy hyper-active editor - Ascyron, you rock).

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
    We're not talking about a janitor or a mop here. We're talking about a guy who is judge and executioner rolled into one. That's why I said I'm not sure if a vote makes sense yet. We have to see how Thomas feels about this first.
    Why? If we *can* reach some kind of consensus here, I bet that *will* influence Thomas' decision. Of course it *is* his decision, but as of now I am not so sure if he is aware of the rising number of spam messages... And anyway, who says we can't try?
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

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  8. #18
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    With all respect for the wiki, it's an outside source and not affiliated with this forum... And just like jaakkos' server, it's highly possible for a newbie to find this forum and not know about the wiki, equally likely as he is to not know about the server - he would find out about the wiki from people talking about it and from Ascyron's signature instead of - you guessed it - a stickied thread or an entry in the stickied ADOM Links thread. I'm not even sure what you're talking about. How does the wiki relate to new people knowing or not knowing about the server? Besides, it's located on a service that sometimes loads slowly and is ridden with ads (though overall bearable) - wouldn't it be much preferable if people can stay on this nice ad-free forum instead?

    There's a lot of cool ADOM stuff people don't know about. Rather than randomly picking it up after weeks of lurking or posting ("Hold on, I can play ADOM over the internet? And other people can watch me play? Why didn't I know this?!") stickying the relevant threads would not only save us old forum nuts the trouble of seeping through the archives to post a link, it would instantly show people these things exist without having to stumble over them at some other point and then coming up with the courage to ask and risk sounding like a n00b - this is what I mean by newbie friendly. Even stickying the ADOM Links thread alone would go a long way.

    (Prize question: How many people who are reading this thread knew the ADOM Links thread before it was mentioned here? How many are still wondering, by this post, where it can be found?)

    I'll definitely agree that spam is much more annoying than thread titles with typos. But both are annoying and there are no reasons not to fix them if asked to if you've got someone who can do that, right?

    I don't want to come off like we're telling Thomas how to run his forum, that's what's making me feel somewhat reserved about holding a vote and dumping a community choice in his lap - it smells a bit of "Appoint this person or your community is sad", even if we don't mean it that way.

    I am certainly fine with discussion, though. I feel a good moderator could add a lot to this forum and take quite some burden off Thomas' shoulders - that's what these guys exist for. You seem to work under the assumption that a moderator is bad in and of itself and a necessary evil at best, and it's true that bad moderators are worthless, harmful and can kill a message board - which makes it all the more important to find a good moderator.
    Last edited by Silfir; 09-02-2009 at 04:58 PM.
    ADOM Guides - whatever you wanted to know about playing a certain class, but have been afraid to ask!

    Check out my youtube channel to see my ADOM videos, including a completed playthrough of the game. I try to give instructions, so if you want to see some place you haven't been before and get some hints on how to deal with it, this might help! There's also some other games featured there that you might find interesting.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    work under the assumption that a moderator is bad in and of itself and a necessary evil at best
    Quote for truth. From my past experience on local forums one of problem is detecting good moderator. It has really nothing to do with being good player, having certain number posts, dedication to community etc. More like a blind guess which often goes wrong.
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  10. #20
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    .. in the meantime, this spambot invasion is getting progressively ugly. We have now for the first time had a regular thread bombarded with serial spam ("where to pick herbs" in the general discussion). Bad news, because it will not be the last time.

    I've seen a spambot invasion turn from mildly annoying and even somewhat amusing into a plague on another forum where they did have moderators. I hate to think what is going to happen on this forum if no action is taken. At some point, you have regular serial spam in all topics and it gets hard to have a conversation any more.

    So uhm yeah, of course it is important to agree on matters like whether it is ok or not for a moderator to sticky a topic or to make some minor correction on request, but with the current impending disaster I'm not overly worried about those issues.

    So far we have three volunteers - in my humble opinion, they all qualify. Now how to reach Thomas?
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

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