morgia training abusing learing?

[pblack]

I'm with a Dwarven Assassin and i'm herb farming. My flg follows:

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                            Character Information
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Ivan    St:18  Le: 9  Wi:21  Dx:20  To:25  Ch: 5  Ap: 9  Ma:11  Pe:15  L
DV/PV: 18/24   H: 138(138)   P: 44(49)   Exp: 14/114741   M: 35563

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                                  Inventory
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Total weight: 1685 stones                Carrying capacity: 1950 stones

He: uncursed hood [+2, +2]                                             [3s]
Ne: blessed necklace of the eye                                        [3s]
Bo: uncursed fine leather armor (named) (+2, +0) [+2, +8] (+15 spd)  [120s]
Gi: uncursed metal girdle [+0, +1]                                    [25s]
Cl: uncursed hooded cloak [+1, +0]                                    [40s]
RH: blessed rustproof orcish dagger (+3, 2d3+6)                       [10s]
LH: uncursed small shield [+2, +3]                                    [50s]
RR: blessed ring of searching                                          [1s]
LR: uncursed ring of defense +1                                        [1s]
Br: uncursed bracers of resistance [+0, +0]                           [10s]
Ga: uncursed gauntlets (-1, +0) [+0, +2]                              [10s]
Bo: blessed leather boots [+0, +3]                                    [25s]
MW: -
Mi: blessed dagger of returning (+2, 1d4)                             [10s]
Tl: -

the thing is, I maxed out To and I'm now eating 8 cursed morgia per turn to increase the remaining points of willpower. But every time my willpower rises, my learning goes down 1 point! Is this "abuse" because of the 25 points in toughness known to happen? If not... it only leaves the equipped items and there's none that drains learning. Unless the orcish dagger (that's the bloody dagger, +Crit) drains it and I don't know.

It sucks because i already lost 4 points of learning this way. I notices when i had already lost 2 and though some undead had drained me... then on my next Wi increase i noticed it...and yet again on the last one.

EDIT: got another increase from the remainder and lost yet another Le point.

EDIT 2: lost ANOTHER point, with no Wi increase. I removed the dagger now.

[JellySlayer]

Are you in a "dull room"? Or do you have the "apish" corruption? Both of these can lower your Le. I don't know of many other ways.

[pblack]

oh shit... the patch is in a dull room and I just locked the level and waited there.

shiiit ..... lol. after losing 7 points of Le. Nice to be remembered of that.... hahhaa. Good thing the oracle is still alive.

EDIT: lost the 8th point after leaving the room. i'll probably go down to 1... lol.

Weird effect... the PC forgot how many charges he had on his wands.... cool

[Jack the Ripper]

There's no need to eat 8, AFAIK. 4 will be enough to increase the potential, then another 4 after the potential has been increased, to increase the skill itself. Morgia's status doesn't matter. You could also use some devil's roses and starvation, because the devil's rose decrease toughness by 4, IIRC, and starvation can even halve your Wi without endangering you because of a starvation-death. Just watch that St so it doesn't become half of what it would've otherwise been, 'cause that's the danger point. This way, you can easily get Willpower to 32. You just have to not reach 25 in any of those stats when you've just eaten the morgia. So I guess the best bet, if trying to increase both, is to eat a ton of morgia when your sickness-decreased toughness is 24 and your willpower is, due to starvation or not, below 25 as well. Then just watch the increases flow, as long as the stats don't hit their maximum. IMO, this is the best moment to use blessed potions of potential, for each of them. If aiming just for willpower increases, you can take it a LONG way using starvation. Might even be able to achieve 48, with a lot of effort

Anyhow, I'm still fine-tuning my starvation+sickness+herb scumming techniques, but the above seems to work quite well, so far.

[Harwin]

I thought it was 2/4 morgia for toughness (2 for increase, 4 for potential) and 4/8 morgia for willpower.

I've definitely noticed that willpower takes more morgia than toughness.

[pblack]

I thought it was 2/4 morgia for toughness (2 for increase, 4 for potential) and 4/8 morgia for willpower.

I've definitely noticed that willpower takes more morgia than toughness.

Yes... 4 wasn't really doing the trick. or was...but too slow.

Starvation just takes too much work and i don't really need stats at 48 =P. Not that I would complain if I got them. But this guy got nature's companion for precrown, and i still have to get mithril and steel skin to get my pv to about 30. I was really lucky, starting out with a [+2, +2] hat, a [+2 +3] shield and [+0 +3] boots. Plus, i got 1 pixie corpse that DID gave me teleportitis (already had TCtrl). Survival hasn't been an issue yet and i'm still aiming for extra PV. Later, dodger chain it is.

I recall having a necromancer that had a PV of 40 by lvl 18, i have no idea how i got that much so early.

[Jack the Ripper]

I thought it was 2/4 morgia for toughness (2 for increase, 4 for potential) and 4/8 morgia for willpower.

I've definitely noticed that willpower takes more morgia than toughness.

Actually, the potential takes just as much morgia to improve as the stat, AFAIK. There are some exact values of how much each herb trains your stat (code-dived) in the IGB.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

My rule of thumb is always eat/use 8 of everything. It's probably not the most efficient way to train, but it's easy and Just Works(tm).

[Soirana]

I thought it was 2/4 morgia for toughness (2 for increase, 4 for potential) and 4/8 morgia for willpower.

I've definitely noticed that willpower takes more morgia than toughness.

actually this is incorrect. Morgia as all things provide training. to get 100% of raise on first attempt you need ridiculous amounts. Practical amounts depends on player and char [with/without herbalism]:
i use something like 10morgia for potential 6 for stat as this in practice gives fast enough raises [and usually at least one kick after few consumptions if i miss raise and forget to eat more]. Moss i use 5 and three.
As far as i know blessed herbs give better training so you can cut number for them.

[meh]

The current value of the stat also matters. You need more herbs to raise a stat in the low twenties than you do if it's below 10.