Does anyone like Staffs?

[Blank4u47]

Hello everybody! Just started getting back into adom after a long burnout. I was curious if Anyone ever makes a staff wielder PC?
I’ve been enjoying the weapon group very much for a while now, as it is very versatile and powerful. Anyone have any opinions?

[grobblewobble]

Okay, here's an opinion.

The nice thing about staves is the weapon skill; it offers lots of DV, in addition to good damage and to-hit.

The problem is that you can (nearly always) get even better DV and better damage with a shield + one-hander. There are so many one-handed weapons in the game, and a lot of them are really great. Even if you're really unlucky with finding good one-handers, Big Punch is garantueed.

Good staves are much harder to come by. Wooden staves are common, but they get all too easily destroyed and the damage is hardly better than an orcish spear. A staff of smiting deals good damage, but is also easily destroyed. Mist elf necromancers get a frozen quarterstaff of devastation, but again, easily destroyed (and you have to play a mist elf). There are a bunch of artifact spears, but the damage on them is disappointing. Quicksilver quarterstaff is an interesting idea, but the speed bonus doesn't compensate for the lacking damage in melee (if you are a wizard or archer, maybe?). In theory you could find a (higher) metal staff of devastation / penetration, but those are incredibly rare.

Can you restrict yourself to staves and have fun and win? Definitely yes. Are they optimal? Nope.

edit: monks can wield a staff without losing the class bonus to DV, so for them the comparison with one-handers looks a little better. Lacking damage means it is usually still not the optimal choice.

[Blank4u47]

You, of course, are not wrong. However it’s not quite as bad as you say. There are a few minor advantages to a staff at different points Of the game I’ve found.
1. The d10 helps a weaker character break through those early game high pv enemies easier (I’m talking lvl 1ish here before orcish spears are found)
2. They are very commonly found. There seems to be a very high chance to find a quarterstaff. This of course is a very subjective experience.
3. They charge faster when fighting with them (it was either that or just holding them, I forget)
4. That’s about it. They aren’t game breaking by any means, but definately a viable Weapon.

[grobblewobble]

Very early game yes, staff + true berserk works well for some classes. In those rare cases where you do find an adamantium quarterstaff of devastation, I would also certain go for it. Or simply a restriction to fight with staves only - it's not nearly as challenging as drakeling spit only and people did that too.

I haven't played much with staves with charges so can't really comment.

[Blank4u47]

My current gnome mindcrafter is staff only and hasn’t needed to resort to true berserk yet, even against the giant ant warriors. It’s a d10+2 staff he started with. Talents selected are the 3 skilled talents plus strong of will, quick, and affinity staffs. It hasn’t been hard at all, but I can’t say every race/class combo would do as well with this combo. I do know mindcrafters can do better with staffs than other classes because they can just confuse enemies they can’t beat normally, but I remember playing a staff only character at some point, I just don’t remember what I played. I remember fighting a greater vault and shutting down liches with staffs of dampening and staffs of undead slaying. But it’s been a couple years now I think so details are getting sketchy so I’m trying to replicate the scenario.

[Grond]

If you're lucky enough to find two staves of strength, staff-wielding can be extremely good. The cooldown is short enough that you can keep strength boosted to 99 indefinitely if you juggle them properly (use as often as possible, always zap while equipped). Unfortunately they are quite rare. Kalmius' Shield on monk or PP-user is pretty good too. Otherwise... well at least it's better than dual-wielding. I guess an affixed staff of pain could be quite strong.

[Blank4u47]

That’s a neat idea with the staves of strength! Btw, have you tried dual wielding with melee weapon master? It’s talent heavy but it certainly makes it more worthwhile to do.

[Grond]

It's certainly nice to see that energy cost go under 1000 a lot earlier. On the other hand, I would say melee weapon master is pushing the build even further into "fun, but not optimal" territory.

[Blank4u47]

So, ironically, I’m playing a staff only gnome mindcrafter and somewhere around UD or CoC I find a staff of willpower and slaughtering. I have trouble thinking of a better weapon for a staff only mindcrafter to use

Edit: it is a staff of willpower and mayhem, oops.

[Jeremiah]

They seem more like a concept weapon to me. You use them if they fit the type of character you want to play, but if you are going for optimal play and you are focusing on a melee setup, then they are not worth the two slots they take up.