Does JADE need more complex combat?

[reich]

To balance this system, the to-hit penalty for being surrounded could be forfeit.

In ADoM, when you are surrounded by monsters, your chance to hit decreases drastically. That's not entirely logical, since when there's plenty of targets around you then, statistically, your chance to score a hit grows

In Jade this system could be inverted. You don't get a penalty from being surrounded - the monsters get a to-hit bonus. This implies an evident tactic against surrounding - charge at one of the attackers at Berserk to bust out of the deathtrap!

[F50]

I understand that you want the penalty to rise with the square. These are penalties that come out of all this.
1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21, 28, 36
1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128
Guess which penalty is whose formula (yours or mine).

I didn't make it clear enough, the squares shouldn't sum. so with n^2

1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64

mine already works on n^2. Minimum penalties for set of monsters (first and last are also maximums):

0(1*1=1) 0(2*2=4) 9(3*3) 16(4*4) 25(5*5) 36(6*6) 49(7*7) 64(8*8) which is the same as n^2.

If I were to make it so that it increased per strike it would work (with eight monsters) like:

1*8 for the first monster (1 monster multiplied by degree)
2*8 second monster (2 monsters multiplied by degree)
3*8 third monster and so on up to 8*8. Remember these are total penalties. The penalties are not summed.

The reason I didn't post it this way in the first place is because it is more complicated.

Yours is a bit weak if there's a smaller number of enemies, but overwhelming near the end. I mean, 8 kobolds WILL instakill you if they all attack at once because each arrow will hit.

I didn't mean it to work with arrows at that would be inefficient to calculate beforehand. The only way to do arrows rationally is by using a per shot system.

Melee, too. You can get surrounded anytime, even at the very beginning of game, when you dont have more than 5-6DV. So yes, yours is overwhelming. Feedback from others, please!

The only place being surrounded may be unavoidable is in the wilderness and in large places like the Big Room (which simply shouldn't exist in dungeons near the beginning of the game if this is implemented).


and yes, the to-hit penalty should be forfeited (possible even make a to-hit bonus). As I understand it, to-hit is the same as DV so just modifying DV is easier.

[Ars]

Hey, when you're surrounded by enough monsters you do lose DV in ADOM too, or rather the enemies get to-hit bonus which is effectively the same. +2 to hit (PC gets -1) for every enemy after the 1st or 2nd. Of course courage makes that better, but you won't get courage for a character who's still risking to get killed by pesky kobolds.

I'd say that level of negative applier for getting surrounded is the minimum level. The to-hit minus for PC could be removed, as proposed earlier. Still it does make sense to choose a more defensive tactic.

[Grey]

One thing about the comment on this "making heroes weak", I don't think it necessarily will. I think it's more about making players more tactical. That's what this game's all about after all - being tactical and careful. The actual maths behind it all doesn't matter - ADOM has plenty of crazy calculations going on all the time, and you don't notice half of it. All you see is hit and miss.

And, importantly, TB has said that in JADE monsters are people too. What applies to the PC will also apply to his victi- I mean, enemies. Will make things extremely interesting...