Originally Posted by
Grey
Okay, so here's a few ideas I've been having based on the suggestions in this thread...
In ADOM characters have various levels of piety. It's an integer amount, and can be positive or negative. Getting high piety is easy by direct sacrifice. Attaining certain levels can give bonuses or punishments. You can become champion by praying with enough piety, after which you are stuck to that general alignment. When crowned though you can still drop to low amounts of piety, and can still do all sorts of things that are against your god's teaching.
Overall this system is open to huge abuse. Alignment is changed easily through saccing small amounts of gold at altars, and after gaining rewards from the god there's little risk of losing them. The actions of the character have almost no bearing on the god - it's mostly about material sacrifice in fact. Huge amounts of gold are easily attained, even early game, allowing for rich rewards without any further maintenance.
In JADE the idea expressed in this thread is for a more complex system, with different gods the PC can choose to worship at his will. The PC would get different rewards and powers from each god, and this could heavily influence their abilities. One could choose to reinforce existing powers, or use a god different from one's class to make a more multi-tasking character. This would make religion a huge influence on the character, such that you could no longer just say you're a Candle-born trollish healer - you're now a Candle-born trollish healer of Celimbra - truly the ultimate in regeneration combos! In short your chosen deity becomes as important as your chosen class, and would add a wealth of depth to your character.
So, looking at religion as a class, how about we give it levels and class powers? Piety points would act like experience points, and ascending through the levels of piety would raise your powers in accordance with that god's speciality. Piety point requirements for levelling would raise exponentially, like xp does. At specific levels you could gain titles, and with these titles new powers. In-game you wouldn't see any points - you'd just see either the levels or the titles (perhaps only priests could see the exact levels). Dropping piety is possible, and if you reduce in level you lose all the higher level's powers. This could mean that praying in the heat of a difficult battle could weaken you greatly, so you have to balance the necessity carefully.
Ideas for titles:
- Level 1, Initiate. The usual starting point - a regular member of the church. Small bonuses, if any.
- Level 6, Follower. A more involved member of the religion, granted certain extra favours.
- Level 12, Faithful. A true believer in the ways of their god, given additional favour and more respect amongst normal church members.
- Level 18, Devout. One who's life has become more centred around the teachings of their faith, and whose continued service has given them special attention from their deity.
- Level 24, Disciple. One chosen and blessed by the god to follow their path closely, and given greater favour. It is not possible to get above Disciple status for more than one god.
- Level 30, Champion. A great force in his religion that worships their lord/lady fervently. He will be given great power to help further his god's wishes. Extremely high standing in the church. (Requires special quests.)
- Level 40, Messiah. The messenger of their god, endowed with divine powers to bring to fruition all their god's desires. (Requires very special quests.)
- Level 50, Avatar. The very face of their lord on Ancardia. All they do is a representation of their god's will, and civilisations will harken to their words. (Requires extreme quests on the order of slaying other gods, wiping out cities or species, etc.)
Gaining piety is a matter of pleasing your god. Direct sacrifice is possible, but can only gain you so much. It would not be possible to simply acquire huge hordes of gold to become the messiah of a religion. Some gods would frown upon material sacrifices or living sacrifices, others might value it highly but only if done in sufficient quantities. The real way to gain piety is to act in accordance of your religion, or complete religion-specific quests. Acting in accordance with religion means your day to day actions must match your god's philosophy. Casting powerful magic gains favour with Elisio, etc. Different actions would affect your piety by different amounts. Care would have to be taken to not allow simple grinding (though exponential increases in requirements should help with that). Some positions may be impossible to attain unless you complete a high-powered quest. Lesser gods will have lesser requirements, but lower rewards.
Losing piety happens gradually over time, though is usually countered by the PC's normal actions unless he severely neglects his religion. You can also lose piety through direct actions that are against your beliefs - some more serious than others. Killing dwarves won't make you popular with Morodwyn, and chopping down trees won't put you in Aerie's good books. Serving opposing deities can reduce your standing too. Getting a very negative rating with a deity may result in them trying to curse or punish you, or sending servants out to attack you, though having high standing with a different deity will protect you from most of this. This means that life would be more difficult for atheists who don't have this protection. Being a high member of a religion and then abandoning it could result in retribution.
You have standings with all deities at all times, but will not receive any positive effect from this unless you are actually a member (nor will you be able to see your position with that god unless you are a member). At the beginning of the game you can choose from different starting religions to belong to (possibly even choosing several) based on your race/class/starsign etc (see above). Encountering temples and altars through the game can allow you to sign up for more. However you might still gain the attention of gods without worshipping them - becoming high in their powers might even make them actively try to recruit you (and spurning them could lead to bad things...)
Rewards from gods will be based on that deity's specialisation. They would generally be on the same order as class powers and talents. Some rewards would be individual powers, like summoning elementals, others would be specific bonuses to stats and skills, others would be the likes of reduced spellcasting cost. Many would have their power based on your current piety level (eg. +5 HP per piety level, or +1% magic resistance for every 3 piety levels). Artifact rewards are possible at higher levels, but the reward would be based on the god, not your class (or possibly random). There would no longer be the traditional luck/fate smiles (though some gods might grant these). With some balancing in other areas this could make Fate Smiles a much rarer and more exclusive intrinsic (which I'd say is appropriate).
Characters can still pray to gods for aid, and usually will receive the same effects as in ADOM. HP/PP restoration, removal of dooming, etc. Piety is decreased by doing this, and certain levels of piety are needed to achieve certain things. Prayer costs increase through usage as in ADOM. Some gods will be cheaper for certain things than others. For instance Celimbra will be quick to heal, but Ssraxx is unlikely to remove dooming.
Altars can be randomly found in dungeons, but no longer are specific colours. Some may be exclusive to specific gods, and can be used to become an initiate in their faith, or converted to your own religion (if you're powerful enough). Most though would be generic, and you can sacrifice to any god at them. At high powers you can change a generic altar to one dedicated to one specific god (which would gain you piety with that god, but abuse others). When saccing at generics you would choose which of the religions you're a member of to sac to (simply pressing enter would result in saccing to your highest standing god - there would be a configuration variable to make this automatic for those that prefer). Potions can be blessed and items ided as per normal. You *can* be sacced by other creatures, and potentially any other creature around if it's a generic altar. However having a higher standing with a god will protect you from this. But if a creature is powerful it may have a higher standing with its own god to overcome this and sac you. Thus anyone with decent piety has little to fear from a standard kobold, but only the most pious can resist being sacced by a balor.
Priests and paladins might find things slightly different. Piety should be easier to gain for a start, and starting piety would be much higher. The names of the ranks would be different (things like bishop for priests). They may gain different powers or simply greater powers for each god.