Religion in JADE

[theotherhiveking]

Lets see if you like this.

Note this goes together with what IronJelly and I said.


You start with no religion unless you are a priest.

Next step is to find a temple of the god alignment you are going to chose (FE; Death, War, Chaos, Nature, Magic...)

So, each Alignment has around 4 gods, maybe 1 more.

You worship ALL of them.

Each god has a different personality.

Having a good and balanced relation with all of them provides some extra bonuses, and maybe (only maybe) luck.

To take thier attention you must Pray and them choose to what god.

You can only Sacrifice and Offer (or doing things that make the god happier) if you have prayed a few turns before, otherwise, he will not notice unless you have a very high level of relation ship with that god (he will be paying attention 90% of the time).

You cant be the champion of an only god, you must be a champion of the whole alignment, so to become a champion of death, you must have a very high relation with your god, as well as being a powerful necromancer (i readed somewhere that classes will only affect the initial values of the skills, equipament and stats (so a necromancer with a lot of practice can master archery, and a archer learn how to ignite their arrows in air))

Crossworshipping exist; This means, that if you have a high relationship with death god, chaos only will know a like you too, and will love if you switch to their alignment, and totally the opposite with Order gods.

[IronJelly]

That is interesting. Seems a bit complicated, but I like it. One thing I like about Stone Soup, is that you could voluntarily go without religion if you wanted. No benefits, but no need to worry about sacrifice, or offending the god.

The only problem I had in ADOM with the religion, was that you lost piery when you prayed. Eventually, prayer alone can annoy your god. This fit the balance, since the god generally did not interfere, or intervene unless you prayed, where the SS gods are active most of the time. Just the same, it would be nice to be able to pray to your god, not specifically to gain anything, but just to see your standing, maybe even gain piety in the proccess, or to do so as an initial action for something else (ie: in SS, you have to be in prayer to properly sacrifice a corpse.)

Your suggestion reminds me of the alignment system in Well of Souls. If you practice Fire magic, you gain skill in the adjacent schools (chaos and death) as well, but you are pulling the three school opposite from you away (in this case order, life, and water). You could actually level two opposing schools, but it took a lot more work. You had a ranking in all eight sets.

[Grey]

This also fits to my Andor Drakon PC from an ancient AD&D campaign who was a C/E priest worshipping a minor demon from the Abysss, later slaying him and final raising himself to Demonlord status to gain eternal life...

Wow... This is very interesting for a story I've been writing on Andor's background...

Back to the topic though, I would like a Roman or Norse pantheon of sorts, with lots of gods you can worship at once for different things, with some being mutually exclusive and some being race and class specific. Altars need not be different colours - they can be open to all, and you choose who to sacrifice or pray to when you use those commands. Perhaps in the beginning you'd only be aware of certain gods related to your race, class and alignment, but as you advance you can learn about others (they might even take a direct interest in you). Temples would exist in cities where you can convert or at least learn more about a specific deity. Some of the more powerful and unique gods could only be learned about through difficult and obscure side quests (a hidden temple far off in some ruins for instance).

Rewards could vary from increased luck and stats, to specific powers (like class powers) that rely on a strong relationship with your god. They could also give resistances and immunities, affinities to specific weapons and armour, and affect your relations with other monsters (champions of the orc god would find all orcs friendly for instance, whilst being hostile to all elves). It should be difficult to get these high rewards though - you should have to really prove yourself to a god with major quests and trials.

Would be nice also if you could meet and potentially kill gods in JADE (if powerful enough) and then devour their essence to gain immense power, much like young Andor did. You could start picking off lesser gods and then move up the food chain, building yourself up to God of Ancardia.

Some ideas on fitting ADOM gods:

Main Gods
These deities are widely known, though some may have different names to different races. Temples to them can be found in most major cities in Ancardia. They are very powerful, with millions of followers, and have great control over the forces of nature and the fate of the world. Those who catch their eye can be guaranteed immense power.

Vellius - God of War
Description: The 4-armed master of all combat
Alignment: True neutral
Available to: All
Initially avilable to: All fighting classes, any born in Sword
Rewards: Improved physical stats and skills, better combat bonuses, etc.

Risus - God of the Sun
Description: Lifegiver and fire-bearer
Alignment: Lawful neutral
Available to: All
Initially available to: All surface races (non-dark elves, humans, drakelings, hurthlings)
Rewards: Higher healing rate, fire resistance. Stronger during daylight hours and summer months.

Silvia - Goddess of the Moon
Description: Ethereal Lady of the Heavens.
Alignment: Neutral good.
Available to: Any that are not chaotic evil
Initially available to: Grey elves, priests, wizards
Rewards: Appearance, magic and luck bonuses. Stronger during moon cycles and eclipses.

Raha - Goddess of Night
Description: The mute Lady of Twilight (Silvia's sister). Favours those who live in the shadows.
Alignment: Chaotic neutral
Available: Any that are not lawful good
Initially available to: Assassins, thieves, any born in Raven
Rewards: Stealth and dexterity bonuses, better night vision. Stronger at night.

Esilio - God of Magic
Description: The grand patron of all mages and overseer of the flow of Mana.
Alignment: True neutral
Available to: Any with knowledge of magic
Initially avilable to: All spellcasters, any born in Wand
Rewards: Stronger magic, reduced spellcasting costs. Resistance to magic at higher piety.

Aerie - Goddess of Nature
Description: Guardian of plants and crops, overseer of the weather cycles
Alignment: True neutral
Available to: All
Initially available to: Hurthlings, Wood Elves, Druids, Rangers, Farmers, any born in Tree
Rewards: Higher toughness, improved herb skills. Plants are non-hostile to her champions.

Loscaster - God of Nobility
Description: Protector of thrones and forces of good. Takes the appearance of a white unicorn.
Alignment: Lawful Good
Available to: Lawful good and neutral good characters.
Initially available to: Good paladins and priests, any born in Unicorn
Rewards: Appearance, strength, resistance to corruption. Improved favour with kings and nobility.

Celimbra - Goddess of Health
Description: Many are the temples to Celimbra across the world, and her priestesses welcome in all who are in need of healing or restoration.
Alignment: Neutral Good
Available to: All (though evil chars can't advance far)
Initially available to: Healers, paladins, priests, any born in Candle
Rewards: Higher toughness and healing rate, better healing magic, resistance to sicknesses.

Pelivary - God of Music
Description: Lord of music, dance, drinking and festivities.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Available to: All
Initially available to: Bards, anyone with music
Rewards: Improved music skills, resistance to drink, higher charisma and dexterity.

Urin - Goddess of the Hunt
Description: Noble slayer of evil, and hunter of animals
Alignment: Neutral Good
Available to: All non-evil
Initially available to: Rangers, any born in Falcon
Rewards: Improved archery, food preservation. Stronger against evil creatures and animals. Greater control over wilderness encounters.

Valax - Lord of Treachery
Description: A dark god who men look for when they wish to gain power. His temples are hidden but widespread.
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Available to: All non-good
Initially available to: All evil races
Rewards: Greater powers in your class, but usually at a price... Champions of Valax may become targets of others of his servants that are jealous of their status.

Nefaria - Lady of Vengeance
Description: The smiter, the justifier, the reclaimer. Many turn to Nefaria when the law is not enough. Bounty hunters, the weak and the desperate all call her name.
Alignment: Chaotic neutral
Available to: All bar lawful goods
Initially available to: All
Rewards: Improved willpower, stealth. Grants great favour on those that help others take vengeance.

Mexiphal - God of Suffering
Description: Lover of pain and sadness. His temples are widespread in evil cities, and many underground cults can be found dedicated to him across the world. Many pray to cause suffering on others, or to alleviate their own.
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Available to: All non-good
Initially available to: All evil races
Rewards: Improved toughness and willpower. Greater rewards for giving enemies a slow death, and for sacrificing children.

(continues next post)

[Grey]

(can't believe I hit the char limit so easily...)


Lesser Gods
These gods are well known, but less worshipped. Temples are harder to find, and initiation can be more difficult. They generally have less power than the main gods, but they take more of an interest in their few followers. Great rewards can be had by impressing one of these deities.

Linzit - The Joker
Description: Lord of tricks and jokes, always unpredictable. Small temples can be found to him in the major cities.
Alignment: Chaotic neutral
Available to: All non-lawfuls
Initially available to: Bards, thieves
Rewards: Usually two-edged swords, such as the gauntlets of eternal peace. Generally greater luck for those who please him most. The greatest rewards go to those who can trick even him.

Huuvit - Lord of Decay
Description: Bringer of disease and plague, rotter of bodies and witherer of crops.
Alignment: Neutral evil
Available to: Any who practise necromancy
Initially available to: Necromancers
Rewards: Greater necromancy skills and corpse preservation. Protection from undead attacks.

Anisatia - Goddess of Nightmares
Description: Wrecker of dreams and bringer of dark prophecies. Many pray to her to curse the sleep of their enemies.
Alignment: Chaotic neutral
Available to: All
Initially available to: Mindcrafters
Rewards: Willpower, resistance to sleep, improved mindcraft.

Lavia - Goddess of Redemption
Description: Once a mortal dark elf, she turned from the evil ways of her race and became a great champion of good, eventually rising up to become a minor deity. Though her followers are heavily persecuted it is still possible to find small temples to her hidden in many evil cities.
Alignment: Neutral good
Available to: All non-evils
Initially available to: Any race that starts off evil but then switches
Rewards: Bonuses against evil monsters. Favour with her makes it easier for formerly evil characters to gain favour with good gods that would ordinarily shun them.

Turgo - God of Death
Description: Guardian of the souls of the dead. Immensely powerful, but little worshipped and few are able to claim his favour. His temples are rare.
Alignment: True neutral
Available: All
Initially available to: None
Rewards: Increased chance to avoid death and death attacks. Greater power against undead. Increases life span at high piety.

Gelion - Lord of Crafts
Description: A maker of many things, and revered by all tradesmen. Cities that rely on manufacture and production will likely have small temples in his honour.
Alignment: Lawful neutral
Available: All
Initially available: Weaponsmiths
Rewards: Improves skill chances, especially the likes of alchemy, fletchery and smithing. Improves relations with common people.

Deelis - God of Animals
Description: Protector of wildlife. Whilst not against those who hunt for food, she favours those who save animals and wild habitats from the corruptive forces threatening the world.
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Available: All
Initially available to: Druids, beastfighters, any born in Wolf
Rewards: Easier fighting with animals, more protection from poison and sickening attacks. Improved physical stats.

Ravinon - God of Trade
Description: Considered both a lord of avarice and a lover of coin - all merchants know to respect him. Temples to him can be found in the biggest cities.
Alignment: Chaotic neutral
Available: All
Initially available to: Merchants, any born in Cup
Rewards: Improved shop prices and dealings with the rich. Find more gold and treasures. Can be difficult to please though - many rich merchants compete for his favour.

Sulso - God of the Sea
Description: Worshipped and feared by sailors across the world, his temples can mostly be found in port towns.
Alignment: True neutral
Available: All
Initially available to: Humans
Rewards: Improved strength, swimming and speed in water. Resistance to water attacks. Champions can breath water and aqautic enemies are non-hostile to them.


Racial Gods
These deities are widely known in their respective races, and have very powerful influence over their peoples. People not of their race are able to gain favour from them by proving themselves great friends of that race, but can never achieve high amounts of piety or champion status. Major cities will always have a temple to their main race's god, and some mixed cities will have multiple racial temples.

Corellius - Lord of the Elves
Description: The grand lord of elfdom, and chiefly worshipped by their warriors and archers. One of the oldest and most powerful gods.
Alignment: Lawful good
Available to: All non-evil (though only elves can rise far - mostly favours high elves)
Initially avilable to: All non-evil elves
Rewards: Improved strength and dexterity, improved skill with higher metal weapons and bows. Elves will become very friendly to any champion of Corellius.

Ayssia - Lady of the Elves
Description: Wife of Corellius, and greatly loved by the elven peoples. She is more worshipped by magic users, and also grants good favour to elf-friends.
Alignment: Neutral good
Available to: All non-evil (though only elves can rise far - mostly favours grey elves)
Initially avilable to: All non-evil elves
Rewards: Improved willpower and mana, stronger magic attacks. Elves will become very friendly to any champion of Ayssia.

Lol'th - The Spider Queen
Description: An evil monster of the underworld and lover of cruel sacrifices, all dark elves are bound to her will.
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Available to: All evil (though only dark elves can rise far)
Initially available to: All dark elves
Rewards: Improved dexterity and mana, stronger magic attacks, stealth and backstabbing. Champions will still find other dark elves hostile (since they are a competitive race), but many spiders will be subservient to their will.

Onn - Human God of Fate
Description: Controller of the forces of destiny, he is very actively involved in the affairs of his followers.
Alignment: Lawful good
Available to: All good and lawful neutrals (though only humans can gain high favour)
Initially available to: Good and lawful humans
Rewards: Greater defensive powers, higher willpower and toughness.

Istaria - Human God of Luck
Description: Manipulater of the chances in fate, and the small forces that can lead to big changes. Worshipped by gamblers and those low in life.
Alignment: True neutral
Available to: All (though only neutral humans can gain high favour)
Initially available to: Neutral humans
Rewards: Mugh higher luck, higher mana and perception.

Ssraxx - Human God of Time
Description: The inevitable bringer of death, the destuctor and passer of all things. Time is an evil thing to short-lived humans, and those who worship Ssraxx hope to delay their death.
Alignment: Neutral evil
Available to: All non-good (though only evil humans can gain high favour)
Initially available to: Evil humans
Rewards: Greater attack powers, greater learning and strength, and longer life. Those who betray him will find themselves much shorter in years.

Morodwyn - God of Dwarves
Description: The great smith who forged the hardy race of dwarves. Loved by all the bearded folk.
Alignment: Lawful good
Available to: All lawfuls (though only dwarves can gain high favour)
Initially available to: All dwarves
Rewards: Greater smithing powers, greater skill with axes, higher strength and toughness, longer beard. Dwarves become extremely loyal to any champion of Morodwyn.

Berwyn - God of Gnomes
Description: A thinker and a tinkerer, Berwyn put all his lust for secrets into his race of gnomes.
Alignment: True neutral
Available to: All (though only gnomes can gain high favour)
Initially available to: All gnomes
Rewards: Better gemology, higher learning, better at skills in general. Champions will garner more respect from all gnomes.

Shalla - Goddess of Hurthlings
Description: The bringer of fruits is mostly worshipped by hurthlings around harvest time when they give up one fifth of their crops in her name.
Alignment: Lawful good.
Available to: All non-evil (though only hurthlings can gain high favour)
Initially available to: All hurthlings
Rewards: More dexterity and toughness, better food preservation and herbalism. Hurthlings will be very loyal to any champion of Shalla.

Issrecht - God of Drakelings
Description: Actually an immensely poweful dragon from the early days of time, Issrecht invented the drakelings to be children for him after being spurned by the target of his love.
Alignment: True neutral
Available to: All (though only drakelings can gain high favour)
Initially available to: All drakelings, anyone born in Salamander
Rewards: More toughness and better healing, longer life, stronger breath attack. Drakelings will be loyal to champions of Issrecht.

Vagrak - God of Trolls
Description: A dark and bloody god who created the trolls to lay waste to the races of the other gods he despised.
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Available to: All evil (though only trolls can gain high favour)
Initially available to: All trolls
Rewards: Higher strength and toughness, higher regen. Gains allegiance from lesser trolls.

The One Who Rages - God of Orcs
Description: A powerful and destructive dark god from the dawn of time, driven into the underworld by an allegiance of the other gods and trapped there for eternity. He spawned the race of orcs to escape from the dark depths and claim vengeance on the other gods.
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Available to: All evil (though only orcs can gain high favour)
Initially available to: All orcs
Rewards: Higher strength and attack power. Those who manage to free him from his underground dungeon will find themselves rewarded very richly. Most lesser orcs will be loyal to a champion of The One.

(continued next post...)

[Grey]

(and finally...)


Rare Gods
These are gods that are unknown to most, and can only be found through difficult quests and obscure dungeons. Only the greatest can gain their favour, but those who do will find themselves in a deeply personal relationship with an immensely powerful entity that can bring them huge reward.

Schzexxvilosis - Lord of Dragons
Description: The first dragon from the dawn of time, a raw representation of the elements that shape the world. Only supremely powerful adventurers can find his temple deep in the heartland of dragons. Those who dare disturb his slumber had best be sure they are worthy for the challenges he will issue, lest they suffer a very quick demise.
Alignment: Lawful evil
Available to: Those that can find him (any born in Dragon will find this slightly easier)
Initially available to: None
Rewards: Extreme physical and mental powers, possibly even the ability to turn into a dragon, complete with breath attacks, flight, etc. A champion of Schzexxvilosis will find many lesser dragons subservient to him.

XXXX - God of Grues
Description: Beyond description, with a name beyond mortal thought. The true lord of darkness, who lies hid in the depths of the world. Only the insane would dare seek him out.
Alignment: Neutral evil
Available to: Those that find him and somehow live
Initially available to: None
Rewards: Extreme physical and mental powers. Ability to see in darkness. Those who rise high can attain the title of Gruewalker - one who is constantly doomed but cannot be harmed by grues.

Kelvekinar - Lord of Corruption
Description: One of the Trinity of Elder Chaos Gods. Was killed by Andor Drakon millenia ago, but can be revived by one who holds the Crown of Chaos. Governs corruption of the flesh, and once controlled all forces of corruption across Ancardia.
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Available to: Evils that can revive him
Initially available to: None
Rewards: Many positive corruptions, such as extra limbs, attunements to higher planes, thicker skin, etc. Attacks will corrupt others, and corrupted creatures will be subservient to your will.

Heloxia - Queen of Insanity
Description: One of the Trinity of Elder Chaos Gods. Was killed by Andor Drakon millenia ago, but can be revived by one who holds the Medal of Chaos. Governs corruption of the mind, and founded the order of chaos to spread worship of her across the world.
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Available to: Evils that can revive her
Initially available to: None
Rewards: Greater mental and magical powers and resistances. Chaos brothers and sisters will be friendly, as will other insane creatures.

Zelgerov - General of Chaos
Description: One of the Trinity of Elder Chaos Gods. Was killed by Andor Drakon millenia ago, but can be revived by one who holds the Sceptre of Chaos. Governs corruption of the soul, and once commanded all the forces of chaos knights and servants. Created the race of molochs in his image.
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Available to: Evils that can revive him
Initially available to: None
Rewards: Greater physical powers and resistances, and powerful weapons and armour. Chaos knights will be subservient to any champion of Zelgerov.

Andor Drakon - ElDeR cHaOs GoD
Description: Few are those who worship him directly, yet the actions of many are under his influence. Even forces of good can be pawns in his schemes to lay waste to Ancardia. He began life as a simple human, but rose to greatness and power, eventually killing and devouring the Trinity of Elder Chaos Gods and absorbing their power, becoming the new ElDeR cHaOs GoD. All forces of chaos bend to his will, and few are those who can stand against him.
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Available to: Chaotic evils that can impress him enough
Initially available to: None
Rewards: Those who prove themselves worthy to him and manage to rise in his ranks can find themselves becoming strong enough to be his general, commanding all the forces of chaos invading Ancardia. There is much competition within his ranks though, and any worshipper will find himself constantly assaulted by rivals. But still, the power he can offer is beyond what any other God can give. Unless, of course, you take his power for your own...

[theotherhiveking]

Hey Grey I LOVE YOU! In a non-gay way

You just solved the whole problem.

[Grey]

I just remembered ratlings are getting included in JADE. Should add a god for them (it won't fit into an edit):

Snixarril - God of Ratlings
Description: The blind Snixarril in his youth took the most base of creatures and rose them up. He taught them to walk instead of crawl, he taught them chivalry instead of scavenging. Now they are a powerful and noble race, much respected across Ancardia as the most honourable soldiers. Ratlings worship Snixarril with a passion and still follow his holy texts to the very word (including the bit about bathing three times daily).
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Available to: All lawfuls (though only ratlings can gain high esteem)
Initially available to: Ratlings
Rewards: Higher dexterity and greatly imrpoved melee skills. Champions of Snixarril gain huge favour from other ratlings, and also high regard amongst lawful soliders and knights.

And yeah, I've got too much time on my hands :P

[Epythic]

Well done, Grey, I like it.

Now I am really thinking about what gods to choose...

[coppro]

Just want to point out a little thing I found funny: ADOM/JADE appears to consistently be behind on the times... DnD is now getting rid of the L/C axis, in favor of just G/E.

I really like the idea of choices of deities. One thing that's always proved prohibitive to me in RLs, though, is the fact that absolutely everything must be learned - ADOM has, by far, the best manual, because it actually explains most of the basic concepts of the game. Make sure that I can understand this system!

[Grey]

Going to a simple good/evil system is an awful idea in a role-playing game. There are such huger complexities at stake! Video games are already cursed by simple black and white systems (quoting Yahtzee Croshaw: you're either Mother Theresa or a baby-eater) it'd be terrible to see PnP going the same route. L/C is vital when consider a character's motivations. LN, LE, CG and CN are all especially interesting. I love the idea of despotic rulers that are not necessarily evil, but not really good either - shades of grey are always far more interesting.

I have some further thoughts on implementation of religion that I'll post later. I believe it's quite easy to create a simple, elegant system that anyone can understand, but that will have majorly complex effects on gameplay and tactics.