To release or not to release...

[EchoingZen]

The Facts
* Releasing the source code will result in many variants, some amazing and some just too silly.
* The mechanics of the game will be in full view.

I understand why you hesitate to release the source code and I feel for you, but do not feel like your work will be diminished because someone made a silly variant. It won't. We all know who the gave many of us so many hours of joy (too many?). Even today when I play Angband, I ignore all the variants and play the real thing. People know which is the real deal and which is not. Sometimes these silly variants come up with stuff that is wonderful, and that can be incorperated into the core game.

I understand you wanted to keep the mechanics of the game under lock and keep, but this has always been a sore spot with me. Some people get enjoyment from the mechanics (myself being one). I like to optimize my characters using game mechanics. Releasing the source code will not spoil the mystery for everyone, just everyone who doesn't want the mystery in the first play.

If for nothing else, release the source code for the bug fixes alone. I hate when ADOM crashes when ever I create a Skilled character.

Whatever you choose, I would like to thank you for the many years of enjoyment you have given me. All these expensive video games I have stacked behind me do not even come close. What is it that these young kids say these days? "You da man"?

[Elone]

Wow, lots of people signed up just to say their own word or two on this topic. The community is bigger than it seems, as there are many other invisible users who like to read the forums or just play the game. It seems that a lot people strongly desires this code (even people who were quiet all this time), and all of their hopes will sink if TB says "no". But I dont think he will say "no". Tho I dont think he will say "yes" either.

[jaked122]

TB there will be pros and cons, you must just hope that the pros outnumber the cons, so please just release the source code so this debate can be over, the people on the other side of the debate wouldn't loose anything, and it can't do too much harm

[F50]

I guess I just don't understand the variants thing, since the vast majority of the software I use is open-source and very few of those programs have been forked (I think xorg and wine are the only ones and wine is the original branch).

However, if TB wants to be absolutely sure no one will fork, then I would just write a license that centralizes the code. Sort of like CC-noderives, except derivative works are encouraged to be sent to TB and a team of trusted coders. Not open-source, but still released-source. I for one would really like to try to fix the "skilled" talent line so I can get some To for my weaker classes.

I agree with some of the previous posters that wanting a free bugfix team is not egoistical at all. I would like to see that, actually. Given a chance, I would even like to participate (ADOM is written in C, right?).

[Al-Khwarizmi]

Wow, incredible, I spend four months without looking at the site and THIS thread appears.

Like other people, I'm somewhat ambivalent about this. I think releasing the source is better for ADOM and for everyone, but it's a pity that the remaining mysteries will be uncovered. I don't think the issue with the variants is a problem, because as other people has said, people won't be interested in them. Furthermore, you can use a license like the Apache license which reserves the name (people can modify the source, but their modifications *cannot* be called ADOM). There are more free licenses than the GPL under the sun.

Anyway, if you don't release it, please, please, make the code available to some select group of people, even if it's under NDA. We would like to see bugfixes, ports, and translations. As I told you some time ago, I would be willing to work on a Spanish translation under NDA. It's a pity that things like this can't be made available to allow ADOM to reach more players.

[Epythic]

I would be willing to work on a Spanish translation

No chance you'd get anywhere. If I remember correctly, Spanish has those weird letters (accents and all that; a little bit like our german umlauts (?????? and of course the ?)) - which means you'd need unicode support, and I pretty much doubt adom has this.

And even if it was possible technically - it would be quite a lot of work. Just think about the mad minstrel songs, and the fortune cookies.

Fell free to prove me wrong, though.

On the other hand: I think the fact that there is "only" an english version is good, because:
- it keeps us together: there are not *that* many ADOM players; and now imagine there were x forums for y languages... You'd have to localize monster and item names and so on, and that would mean that we couldn't really communicate with each other. Bad, bad, bad.
- besides, I really like that ADOM is english. Not only because I like English much more than German (my mother tongue), but also because ADOM was basically my first contact with "real" english (ok, ADOM's english is pretty weird sometimes; shakespearean one might say - at least that's how they called this style in school. But I digress.), and it got me interested in the language.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

No chance you'd get anywhere. If I remember correctly, Spanish has those weird letters (accents and all that; a little bit like our german umlauts (?????? and of course the ?)) - which means you'd need unicode support, and I pretty much doubt adom has this.

Hmm. It might be a problem, or it might not, I don't know. It is possible to build DOS/console applications with accented characters, but I don't know if the libraries that TB uses support them, or if they can be modified to support them.

On the other hand: I think the fact that there is "only" an english version is good, because:
- it keeps us together: (...)

I would personally not play the translation, I'd prefer the original version. The problem is that, in Spanish-speaking countries, there are lots of people with really crappy English. For many people, this is a serious issue that can prevent them from trying a game. Many times I have been encouraging Spanish people to try roguelikes in general or ADOM in particular, and everything goes well until I say they're in English...

Anyway, bug fixes and ensuring future compatibility are more important reasons to opensource ADOM than the possibility of such a translation.

[Epythic]

The problem is that, in Spanish-speaking countries, there are lots of people with really crappy English.

Same goes for most other countries; I know your problem.

For many people, this is a serious issue that can prevent them from trying a game. Many times I have been encouraging Spanish people to try roguelikes in general or ADOM in particular, and everything goes well until I say they're in English...

I see your point, but I still don't think offering them a translation is the right way.
I fear the translation would never, ever reach the quality of the original thing.

[Covenant]

Same goes for most other countries; I know your problem.


I see your point, but I still don't think offering them a translation is the right way.
I fear the translation would never, ever reach the quality of the original thing.

The writing is far and away not what makes ADOM special. Hell, Khelevaster's dialogue in particular stands out in my mind as making the supposed venerable old sage sound like a country bumpkin, and giving him the amulet always jarrs a little for me.

The descriptions of the monsters are nice, but they're very much an 'aside' rather than an integral feature. Ditto things like all the 'Chat' responses you get from monsters; they wouldn't really need to be translated, at least for an initial version.

I could understand your statement if you were talking about something where the wording is its great strength (you mentioned Shakespeare earlier), but I personally doubt anything would be lost if a moderately fluent speaker of English were to translate the game.

I'd like to see translations of ADOM available - it would be a bit exclusionist of me to wish otherwise.

[vogonpoet]

The in game mini-FAQ seems to suggest that multiple language support for ADOM would require serious amounts of work on the source code, rather than just translation of in game text