Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 91

Thread: To release or not to release...

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    199

    Default

    I've got to admit, as the initial excitement has died down and there's been no more news about this, the cynical side of me is growing more... well, cynical. I don't think anything will come of it. Given how long the source code has gone unreleased, it's obviously something that TB will need to spend a lot of time thinking about to make his decision.

    But through no fault of his own, TB obviously has a busy life, with little time for ADOM/JADE at the moment, and given that it's been that way for the past eight years or so, I can't see it changing.

    I'm not saying this to admonish TB in any way - I'm grateful for what he already has given us. But I suppose I am wanting to admonish myself a little for continually getting my hopes up at things such as JADE updates, or the ADOM source, when it's really not wise to do so.

  2. #32

    Default

    IMHO, community input must have been vital in terms of your development of the game, but what makes the game is it's unified vision. That creative control is what adds unique and peculiar aspects to the game that make it compelling. I don't think the code should be released in general or among a group of coders...but if you were going to continue development of the game it should be given to one other person you know and trust who could consult with you...not because you'd be able to veto their development path, but because you could offer your input on the development of a game you are invested in. The creative control/unified vision, I think is what will be important to preserve so that additional content doesn't become generalized down to some version that everyone can agree on...I don't think some of the elements that have made it into the current version would be in place in a community setting.

    What ever you do...if you do decide to give the code out to some, be prepared (worst case scenario) for it to go out to everyone...and like someone intimated once you open Pandora's box it's impossible to shut it.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I really don't see how the Angband effect could happen where the races,classes ect. are separated from the source code, that'd be discouraging to most novice modders who would make the kind of crap that can be found littered throughout angband.
    EDIT: I suppose I would be one of those modders, and I was able to go into the C code and muck up hellband. so...
    Last edited by jaked122; 01-25-2009 at 09:41 PM. Reason: incorrect

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    5,011

    Default

    I'd like to add to what I previous said in emphasising that there are idiots in the world, far too many of them in fact, and if ADOM's source is released then some of these fools will inevitably get their grubby hands on it and do all sorts of horrible things to it. There will be variants and they will be awful.

    The important thing to remember though is that these will be quickly forgotten and ignored. No one's intersted in playing crappy variations of ADOM, not even ones that might have a few cool ideas. The only way a variant would be played is if it is significantly different and is a good game in its own right. Nethack is a good example - extremely popular, open source, and lots of people fiddle around and make variants. But the only good descendant game that anyone even knows about is SLASH'EM, which has a huge amount changed from the original (some of which has been fed back into Nethack). The only other popular variants are the various ports to portable machines, like NetHackDS. So although you might see some painful things happen with the ADOM source they will be forgotten, and hopefully they'll be outweighed by the good things that come from it.

    For instance, I'll not forget the story of a young German programmer who back in the early 90s had a fiddle with some Nethack sources and decided to make his own game instead. I wonder how that turned out...?
    Last edited by Grey; 01-26-2009 at 12:06 PM.
    Platinum Edition ADOMer
    http://gamesofgrey.com - check out my roguelikes!

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Btw, not sure how easy it is to compile ADOM. Most Windows users (aka average ADOM player?) do not have the dependencies (tools and libraries) installed. So I guess that would keep out some of them.

    And: some of you fear that somebody might turn ADOM into something TB will not like. But who is that somebody supposed to be? I guess most of the people that would be dedicated enough to do such a thing are already here on the forums, and it seems like everybody agrees that it's best to respect TB's wishes. So, do you really think there's danger here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    For instance, I'll not forget the story of a young German programmer who back in the early 90s had a fiddle with some Nethack sources and decided to make his own game instead. I wonder how that turned out...?
    Oh that guy...

    Turned out it was not only the best idea in his life, but he also created the most popular roguelike ever
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

    The Adom wiki: everything you don't want to know about Adom.
    http://ancardia.wikia.com/

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    14

    Default

    this is the best rogue-like ever created, and from the way it looks, it won't ever quite be finished without the players being allowed to do something with the source and continue on the legacy

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin View Post
    Ok, here's the quick summary:
    1. It's rather unlikely that I'm going to continue to do much development about ADOM.
    2. It would be a shame to let ADOM vanish with time.
    3. The release of the source code might be an alternative.
    4. But I'm completely undecided if (a) I really want to do that, (b) I just want to do it to get someone else to fix bugs (he, quite egoistic, isn't it?), (c) really start a development community for the future of ADOM. Let's face it... I still would hate to see the "Angband effect" of dozens of variants with all kind of silly stuff... that's just not what I want. But how would another model look like...
    Thus here is a new forum in order to discuss viable options or alternatives, ideas, etc. I'm curious to hear what you think...
    Ah yes, the old ADOM source code issue. I used to be very curious about having a peek at the sources of ADOM (I even sent you emails about it a looooooooooong time ago), although I'm not sure if I myself would really *need* it anymore as I have been able to learn the interesting stuff about roguelike game creation from other sources (I've already built my own cavern generator, for example.), but I still have some of that curiosity about it, namely to learn a little more about roguelikes and their development, to see your maze generator, and to finally know with 100% certainty the answer to the fabled "red rooster" and "weird tome" mysteries. (I certainly wouldn't go and release "mods"/"variants" if you didn't want me to.) As for a "public" release method, what do you think about this? You could license it out as something that could be looked at but modified versions could not be distributed (not sure about distributing the code unmodified -- depends on whether you want it "redistributable" or not). If one wants to distribute a modified version, they would have to contact you for permission -- this way you could review the code and permit, for example, bug fixes or new features, but not allow "variants", i.e. adding features that push the game in a direction that is contrary to your own vision for it. And you could also perhaps add the fix/feature to new "official" releases of the game.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by mike3; 01-28-2009 at 09:12 AM.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    26

    Default

    I'll throw in my two cents here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Epythic
    But who is that somebody supposed to be? I guess most of the people that would be dedicated enough to do such a thing are already here on the forums
    I'm afraid that's just your guess, and I think you're wrong. Definitely Adom official forums doesn't contain whole Adom community. World is wide, and people are different. While I agree that major part of Adom community agree that it's best to respect TB's wishes, but there always will be several fools that don't care about it, and this is real issue. No offence, but it's naive to think that *every single* person will respect TB's rights. We had good examples on forums just few days ago...

    On the other hand, not that I'm saying that releasing source code would be terrible thing. There are positive sides as well(and many of them). Besides poor crappy variants, and programs like Adom bot, there would be bug fixes, new interesing features, and really good variants, which would be worth to play(like Slash'EM for NetHack). I think in case releasing source code, most of them would be impossible to avoid, since Adom is very popular roguelike(maybe most popular roguelike ever), that's why I repeat what I wrote in my previous post - it's all up to TB. If he doesn't feel good(for any reason) with source code released, he shouldn't do it. If he wants to release it, and he won't mind poor variants(most of which probably would be ignored, and quickly forgotten), he should do it. If he doesn't want to release sources, but would like to see Adom developed anyway, small, closed dev team under TB's control is best idea here(and in my opinion, this is best solution).

    In my opinion, two things are sure: there is a risk, and once it's released there is no turning back. Rest is up to TB.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaked122
    and from the way it looks, it won't ever quite be finished without the players
    In my opinion, Adom is already pretty finished game.
    Last edited by Universal; 01-29-2009 at 05:49 PM.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    14

    Default

    nothing is ever truly finished, and when one stops working on their own project, then it would seem as if they should allow someone else to pick it up

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    26

    Default

    I don't agree here - you can improve things indefinitely, but there is a point where you can stop and say "I'm done, it's good enough, time to work on something else". And I think Adom already is good enough game. Don't get me wrong, I love Adom, and I would really like to see new features. But if that doesn't happen, it won't be a tragedy, and definitely Adom won't die without sources released.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaked122
    then it would seem as if they should allow someone else to pick it up
    They can allow someone else to pick it up, not should. Once again I'll repeat - it's all up to TB, to what he feels and thinks about it. He should feel good with Adom sources released, not other people.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •