Class restrictions

[Macros]

I'm for small restrictions. As for me, it's a bit weird that mage wearing moloch armor and wielding powerful two handed sword(bigger than mage itself!) is as good at spellcasting as mage in robe and wielding staff. I agree with Plausible and Mad Minstrel - make it harder. More energy points for spell casting in heavy armour, and some bonuses from casting with both hands free(or while wielding staff) sounds very reasonable.

[spectre]

I think there's a prevelent stereotype running aound about how magic is worked - mumbling arcane formulas and a lot of arm waving. I'll say this: even the notorious D&D has gotten way beyond that. Perhaps in ADOM and JADE spelcasting is all about inwkoing an incantation, and no gesturing at all. (Look at how it's handled there: -foo- screams words of magic) Heavy armor doesn't prevent that.

[Ars]

A staff shouldn't help casting unless it's a magic staff... Imagine a wizard being more powerful after picking up a random twig?

It was good in ADOM, only thing that might be good to change that spells like burning hands cannot be cast unless you have a free hand. Though when wielding a two-hander you could use it still, it's easy to temporarily hold the weapon in just one hand temporarily.

Maybe simpler items like robes and clothes could hold magical properties.

[Macros]

A staff shouldn't help casting unless it's a magic staff... Imagine a wizard being more powerful after picking up a random twig?

Hmm you're right here, mages should be getting some benefits from wielding enchanted staffes. And skilled mage would be able to enchant staff(by spell or ability).

Perhaps in ADOM and JADE spelcasting is all about inwkoing an incantation, and no gesturing at all.

Maybe you're right here, but on the other hand - maybe not. Despite the fact that casting spells doesn't require gesturing, it still requires concentration. Try to focus on something while wearing stuff 50 times more heavy than you.

Besides that, wizards in Adom are already really powerful, much stronger than other classes IMO. Nerfing them a bit, would restore ingame balance between classes, and I think that playing as classic(ie. with robe and staff/free hands) wizard is much more climatic than playing as uber-tank wizard.

[Grey]

I have to agree with many of the important points raised here:
-Old stereotypes of wizards and fighters are boring - players should be able to break outside the box
-ADOM is not DnD, and need not abide by its restrictions
-Spellcasting in ADOM may not require much movement. If you can swing a sword and shoot arrows in heavy plate, why not cast a spell?

I always liked how ADOM let any character do almost everything with enough time and effort - it was just far more difficult with some. JADE should be the same.

I do agree with having an armour skill though, since it makes sense that warriors can use armour more effectively than wizards and bards.

[Epythic]

Besides that, wizards in Adom are already really powerful, much stronger than other classes IMO. Nerfing them a bit, would restore ingame balance between classes, and I think that playing as classic(ie. with robe and staff/free hands) wizard is much more climatic than playing as uber-tank wizard.

Remember: its magic. its powerful.

You are free to play a free-hands wizard. I always preferred a spear or a nice sword.

[kapsi]

I think there should be some class restrictions implemented into the game. For example, wizards shouldn't be able to run around in things like chain mail or plate mail. They should stay limited to things a bit more suited to their class, like robes and leather armor. I also hate seeing win posts with a wizard running around with say a spear and a shield. A few wizards might use swords but most would be using staffs or pherhaps a dagger/knife, but not a shield and a spear. Also limit the actual number of spells a warrior/fighter can learn. Don't just make casting/learning them harder. Say don't let them learn ball spells or improved fireball, maybe let them have heal light wounds and a couple other weak ones.

I like this idea. But maybe instead of restrictions there should be penatlies. It's odd if a wizard can deal same damage with a sword as a barbarian with same strength.

[FantomFang]

Not really. It just means he's worked really hard at it, compared to the barbarian, to whom it comes more naturally.

Speaking of hard restrictions, its been a LONG time since they've had those in D&D, definitely gotta go back an edition (i played 3rd to death). In 3rd edition, all it did was give you a spellcasting failure % based on how easily you can make the arcane gestures while wearing armor. For example, a chain shirt affected you much, much less than a suit of Fullplate. This seems like something that could make a similar translation to JADE, if TB's interpretation of magic involves more than the invocations of power. And there should certainly be no weapon restrictions, because it makes no sense, as other have stated before. I remember playing several classes in the aforementioned system that actually have special abilities revolving around the skill they gain using armor, reducing the penalties associated with its use with arcane magic.

On the whole cleric thing, that's just the difference in magic =p Archetypical Clerical magic are sort of like prayers to the gods, while arcane magic is more like straight from the elements, or the world, itself in a way. In any case, I stand by "hard restrictions bad, soft restrictions good".

I think a balancing act between armor weight would be useful in all aspects. Like similar to D&D, to wear heavier armor and gain the heavier protection, you have to sacrifice some of your mobility. It makes sense to me, and would be awesome (only if its not a pain to code, ofc!)

[kapsi]

Not really. It just means he's worked really hard at it, compared to the barbarian, to whom it comes more naturally.

By that logic the barbarian should use any spell if he works gets his mana/int high.
I like mindcrafters in ADOM because they're unique and since they can't learn spells they have to stick to their abilities. IMO if any class could learn that it wouldn't be so cool.

[Nezur]

By that logic the barbarian should use any spell if he works gets his mana/int high.

Yes, I think the barbarian should be able to make use of magic with the right stat values. I think nearly every character ability should be derived from attributes in a way or another.

I like mindcrafters in ADOM because they're unique and since they can't learn spells they have to stick to their abilities. IMO if any class could learn that it wouldn't be so cool.

I think that talent for mindcrafting is something that you born with. Some may just be much better at it than others.

Speaking of class restrictions... This is how I would implement the basic player character in my own roguelike (which I hope to whip up at some point):

Basic skills - every character has them
Race - determines base attributes and racial abilities and maybe some racial skills
Training - wizard, fighter, monk etc. training. Determines nearly all of the initial skills and modifies starting attributes. Training does not equal class
Attribute adjustments - the changes that the player made at the character creation (max change ~20% per stat, pool-based). Represent some of the choices the character made in regard to attribute training.
Talents- the abilities you were born with. Can only be chosen at creation. Mindcraft, high mobility, expectional -stat- and so on (each talent costs a (highly) varying amount of points). Affect the initial abilities quite a lot

No levels, no classes, no real restrictions. Skill and attribute based character development.