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Thread: Scummy tactics: which ones would you remove/solve from Adom/Jade? How?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Khwarizmi View Post
    By the way, I would add a simple condition that any dungeon levels's danger level increases by one for every, say, 1000 turns spent in it. That would make much harder things like gremlin bombs, scumming for precrowns, massive herb farming, etc. etc.; and it would also work for possible forms of scumming originating in JADE that we can't even imagine with ADOM. In general, player staying for very long periods in the same place -> scummer. So add a penalty to that, and by adjusting it it can provide an interesting form of level scaling even for non-scummers (say, the top CoC levels would become somewhat more dangerous if traversed very frequently).
    I don't like that. Innocent players can spend a lot of time on a level (such as clearing a large/tough vault), and scummers can just leave and re-enter the level every 999th turn. And it's very unrealistic.
    You hit Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, and severely wound him.
    The greater balor summons some help!
    The ratling duelist disarms you. You drop your blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12]. It flies to the west.
    Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, picks up the blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12].
    Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, wields the blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12].

  2. #12
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    Probably I didn't express myself very clearly, but I was thinking about a cumulative counter. So if you leave the level on the 999th turn, the counter for that level remains set to 999, and when you return to it, the danger level raises instantly.

    Of course is not realistic but neither is that enemies of a species get more experience when you kill others similar to them... it's a level scaling feature. This would be another kind of level scaling feature, but aimed to prevent scumming. In fact, any monster generation in dungeons is unrealistic... in the real word, if you kill everyone in a building, new people don't appear at corners when you turn your head!

    Newbies would have to learn that if they stay in a place for a long time things somehow start to get more dangerous... yeah, it's an added difficulty but I wouldn't say it's harder than other things they have to be careful of in ADOM and other roguelikes.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laukku View Post
    I don't like that. Innocent players can spend a lot of time on a level (such as clearing a large/tough vault), and scummers can just leave and re-enter the level every 999th turn. And it's very unrealistic.
    I don't think it's quite as bad as it sounds. Increasing the DL by 1 for every 1000 turns is not going to have a really significant effect, since 1 point of DL is pretty much not really notable--it's unlikely that you notice the difference between D:5 and D:6, for example. If you spent many thousands of turns on the same level (eg. smithing, herb farming, going for sacrifice precrowns), then you might start to notice a difference, but such levels might be pacified anyway. If you spent >10k turns on the same level grinding, I suppose would see a difference, but that's a really long time to spend on one level. Average time to win the game is probably ~120-150k turns for a casual game, so it's unlikely you'd see a single level gaining more than, say, 5 danger levels.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  4. #14
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    The only time I spend more than average turns in any place other than Big Room (which I pacify) and DT (which I don't unpacify unless I'm feeling extremely chaotic) is in early game on a character without healing that I decided to dive SMC/UD instead of getting healing first and I end up running into a mixed tension room/mixed lesser vault both on UD1 and I don't dare exit to SMC so I just hide in a room with the door closed and cower until my pitiful hp slowly climbs up to sustainable numbers.

    Otherwise, I normally don't spend much time on a level unless forced to by spawners/summoners filling my path with ungodly numbers of -foo-. Then it's just a hassle.
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    Last edited by fazisi; 04-02-2011 at 11:07 AM.

  5. #15
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    I don't like that. Innocent players can spend a lot of time on a level (such as clearing a large/tough vault), and scummers can just leave and re-enter the level every 999th turn. And it's very unrealistic.
    Seconded. If you want to scum you WILL find a way around it (like, for example, start a new gremlin bomb on another dungeon level or something.)

    And if the effect is dramatic enough to seriously affect scummers, it will affect newbies and people who just want to do some smithing even harder.
    Last edited by grobblewobble; 10-04-2009 at 12:36 AM.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by grobblewobble View Post
    If you want to scum you WILL find a way around it (like, for example, start a new gremlin bomb on another dungeon level or something.)
    My thoughts exactly.

    I think it's better to deal with scumming tactics individually, instead of general rules like this.
    You hit Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, and severely wound him.
    The greater balor summons some help!
    The ratling duelist disarms you. You drop your blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12]. It flies to the west.
    Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, picks up the blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12].
    Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, wields the blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12].

  7. #17
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    You guys have to think, Jade should be quite a bit larger of a world than Adom was id imagine. So that 1k turn rule potentially could never come into play. Unless you intentionally revisit old places, on the other hand. Levels could be alot bigger too, making this always happen.

  8. #18
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    I would give the casino house advantage. Also, somehow screw up poex wish engines. I made my first one yesterday and I felt dirtier than most all of my other scumming combined.
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    Last edited by fazisi; 04-02-2011 at 11:10 AM.

  9. #19
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    It truly amazes me that you can sit around and think of ways to make a difficult game more difficult. Face it you do not like pickpocketing becuase you personally do not like to take the time to do it so people who do have an advantage over you and you do not like it. To rank pickpocketing as more scummy then piety overflow which is a blatant abuse of a bug vs an in game skill created by the creator is moronic imo. As for summoned monsters not having items....then when a warrior is summoned they should be naked, without a sword or even clothing? I have played ADOM since mid 90's before and after and pickpocketing hasn't broken the game for me. And now farming herbs is scumming, wth? Who made you the police of ADOM...if you weren't meant to farm herbs then what, pray tell, do farmers do? So self righteous you all are yet you'll use Darkness all day and night and not say a word about how you can stand in the dark and beat a mob to death without it ever hitting you once (and you say summoned mobs having items is silly Using Darkness: Scum level 5 game breaking). Or you'll stand in a doorway invisible bolting mobs to death never asking why they can't figure out someone's standing the the doorway Invisi bolting scum level 3. Your suspension of disbelief seems rather convenient. So tired of hearing the whine about Pick Pocketing suddenly you all and not the creator decide how the game was meant to work? I just can not seem to figure out where you all became the ones who decided what ADOM was supposed to be. How about you write your own game or play something else and leave ADOM to the people who love it as it is (even with its sadistic RNG). I have played ADOM for years ad only now know about stuff like gremlin bombs and wish engines since I never bothered with spoilers (another thing you all seem to have no problem with there's some realism for you having a guidebook Using Guidebook scum level 10^6 absolutely game breaking!) but I do not begrudge people who use them thier victories because mine were insanely hard and lucky. I never used a Guide Book or a website to get info and figured it all out on my own but I am not belittling your wins I'm just showing that it's all a matter of perspective...stop complaining and start enjoying...

  10. #20
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    "Scummy tactics: which ones *WOULD YOU* remove/solve from Adom/Jade? How?"

    I fail to see how in a thread with that title we can be "deciding how the game is supposed to work". We're giving opinions just like you.

    You have a point with darkness, I think it's scummy too. I do use it but I don't feel good doing it.

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