Crowning Gift Comparisons

[JellySlayer]

From the minor things but undocumented read, there was a bit of discussion about which classes had the best crowning gifts (credit mostly to Twinge for being provocative ). Since I had a bit of time on my hands (*cough*at work*cough*), I thought that I'd go ahead and get the ball rolling on this since nobody else has taken up to do a thread on this.

The goal is to rank classes based entirely on their available crowning artifacts. What I chose to do was to divide the gifts into a series of groups and assign point values to each, then rank the classes in order of points. I decided to give slightly more weight to artifacts that are exceptionally good, and impose a slightly higher penalty on artifacts that are exceptionally bad, rather than a pure linear scale, since a few artifacts, alone, are enough to significantly increase the odds of winning. Rankings are based on the value of that item for the particular class, so some artifacts (most notably Boots of Divine Messenger) will have very different ranks per class. Items were ranked as follows:

Game-breakers: artifacts that are 1) generally the best item of their respective type, 2) significantly better than any other random item or guaranteed artifact of that type and 3) provide an advantage that is so substantial that it significantly improves the odds of winning. Each game-breaker is worth a score of 6.

Artifacts listed as game breakers: Sun's Messenger, Far Slayer (archers), Executor, Vanquisher, Bracers of War, Preserver, Robes of Resistance, Holy Scarf of Aylas, Justifier (Paladins), Boots of Divine Messenger (monk, beastfighter)


Excellent: artifacts that are 1) one of the best items of their respective type, 2) generally better than any random item or guaranteed artifact of that type. Excellent artifacts count for 4.

Artifacts listed as excellent: Protector, Iron Crown of Havlor, Cloak of Oman, Far Slayer (assassin), Serpent's Bite, Kinslayer, Skullcrusher, Nature's Companion, Ring of Immunity, Shirt of the Saints, Grod, Boots of Divine Messenger (ranger)


Good: artifacts that are one of 1) powerful under uncommon (but not woefully rare) circumstances and otherwise mediocre 2) comparable to high-end random items or guaranteed artifacts. Worth 3 points.

Artifacts listed as good: Crown of Leadership, Boots of Divine Messenger (archer, bard, merchant), Whirlwind, Cloak of Defense, Hammer of the Gods, Bugbiter, Purifier


Fair: artifacts that are 1) generally worse than a powerful random item or guaranteed artifacts or 2) useful only under extremely unlikely circumstances. Worth 2 points.

Artifacts listed as fair: Death's blade, Staff of the Wanderer, Shezestriakis (healers), Perion's Mail (paladins)


Junk: artifacts that are unlikely to ever be used during normal play. Worth 0 points.

Junk artifacts include: Thunderstroke, True Aim, Cat's Claw, Trusted One, Nature's Friend, Staff of the Archmagi, Long Sting, Shezestriakis (merchant, monk), Justifier (priest), Silver Key, Perion's (smith)


Based on this, I get the following rankings:

1. Beastfighter (30)
2-3. Barbarian/Necromancer (26)
4. Mindcrafter (25)
5-6. Monk, Assassin (24)
7-8. Paladin, Healer (23)
9. Fighter (22)
10. Weaponsmith (21)
11. Priest (20)
12. Archer (18)
13. Ranger (17)
14. Wizard (15)
15. Farmer (14)
16. Elementalist (13)
17-19. Druid, Bard, Merchant (12)
20. Thief (10)

Some thoughts: I generally put less weight on items that grant elemental immunities than others might. The reason for this is that, with the exception of fire, most immunities aren't necessary, or even really useful--one or two resistances is usually enough, even if you are, for example doing the BDC without lightning immunity. Boots of Divine Messenger were weighted differently depending on whether or not the class would benefit more from 7lbs. Monks and beasties have natural speed, so the amazing intrinsics and Dx bonus is nice for them, whereas archers are probably going to prefer 7lbs if they're available. There are a few artifacts that I'm on the fence on in terms of rankings (Protector, for example), and defaulted to the lower ranking if I couldn't decide.

[edit] For what it's worth, I think it probably makes a lot more sense to also group the classes into categories of how good their gifts are: even if I tinker slightly with the modifications that I used, it is still likely that, say, Beastfighter, Barbarian, Monk, Mindcrafter, Assassin and Necro are still probably the best of the bunch, and Elementalist, Druid, Bard, Merchant, Thief the worst. There's obviously going to be some personal biases out there towards particular artifacts over others, but nobody is going to dispute that Silver Key is not in the same league as Bracers of War.

[zasvid]

Let me say that I think this is a very good ranking.

I could stop there, but it wouldn't be nearly as entertaining.

So, first off, is summing the points the right methodology? Can we say that a class that has 3 excellent crown gifts and 3 junk ones is exactly as good in the crowning department as a class that has 6 fair artifacts?
I think I'd prefer... hmmm... ok, I don't know

Let's skip to arguing the artifact scoring, it will be more fun.

Aylas Holy Scarf is a bit overrated, because it doesn't have any special qualities and in it's slot there are many useful things that at the most important points of the game you might have to replace the scarf with. Preserver doesn't have this problem, because it has many of those qualities. So the scarf should be excellent at most.

Crown of Leadership - a bit underrated? I've found it several times and never took it off once I've got it.

Brannalbin's Cloak of Defense - it's a cloak of invisibility, defense and protection all rolled into one (+ few resists) - what more do you want from the cloak slot? Definitely excellent.

Staff of the Wanderer - this is a very solid weapon offering good defense and decent bashing ability. I can only see unjust prejudice against staves that is often rampant among ADOMers that sees it placing so low.

Staff of the Archmagi - it's useful to boost casting many castings of spells like Strength of Atlas, Bless, Invisibility etc.

Purifier - good? it's a vessel that will take a mediocre character to a victory. This is a gamebreaker.

Nature's Companion - if Robes of Resistance are gamebreakers, so is Nature's Companion, even discounting immunities (though they are definitely very nice if it's an early crowning). Though I think that they both aren't nearly that and would give them a category in-between gamebreakers and excellent. So would Protector.

[Soirana]

IMO, depends on when you do crowning. Saying what getting Protector at lv8 in VD is not hgame breaking would be ridiculous.

On other hand going for ultimate endings usually do not care about crowning gifts.

I am bit to lazy go over all list now.

[JellySlayer]

Let me say that I think this is a very good ranking.

I could stop there, but it wouldn't be nearly as entertaining.

So, first off, is summing the points the right methodology? Can we say that a class that has 3 excellent crown gifts and 3 junk ones is exactly as good in the crowning department as a class that has 6 fair artifacts?
I think I'd prefer... hmmm... ok, I don't know

I don't know. I was thinking of trying to come up with a better way to do this than summing, but haven't come up with anything that seems fair

Aylas Holy Scarf is a bit overrated, because it doesn't have any special qualities and in it's slot there are many useful things that at the most important points of the game you might have to replace the scarf with. Preserver doesn't have this problem, because it has many of those qualities. So the scarf should be excellent at most.

[+10,+10] for an amulet is massive--in fact, the scarf has one of the highest combined PV/DV ratings of any item in the game. The next closest amulet is Preserver at [+4,+4], which is not guaranteed. Many people just leave the ankh in this slot for most of the game anyway (a pitiful [+2,+2]). Sure you might need to swap the odd time for death ray resist or paralysis resist, but these occasions are few and far between.

Crown of Leadership - a bit underrated? I've found it several times and never took it off once I've got it.

This was a borderline case between excellent/good for me. The stats aren't bad for a helmet (although you can smith better with little trouble) and confusion resistance is always nice to have. Only merchants get this, so changing it would advance them one rank.

Brannalbin's Cloak of Defense - it's a cloak of invisibility, defense and protection all rolled into one (+ few resists) - what more do you want from the cloak slot? Definitely excellent.

I ranked this one a bit down mainly because I have a strong dislike of perma-invis through items due to the food consumption issue. While I use such things on occasion, I wouldn't consider wearing a cloak/ring of invis for any extended period of time. If you do, then I guess you can move this up.

Staff of the Wanderer - this is a very solid weapon offering good defense and decent bashing ability. I can only see unjust prejudice against staves that is often rampant among ADOMers that sees it placing so low.

Most of the classes that get this are casters. If monks could get it, I might rank it as good for them. For a caster, weapon + shield is going to be superior every time.

Staff of the Archmagi - it's useful to boost casting many castings of spells like Strength of Atlas, Bless, Invisibility etc.

This isn't really a big deal since these spells can be stacked ad infinitum with bookcasting.

Purifier - good? it's a vessel that will take a mediocre character to a victory. This is a gamebreaker.

This was a excellent/good split for me. Settled on good because Big Punch is essentially equivalent.

Nature's Companion - if Robes of Resistance are gamebreakers, so is Nature's Companion, even discounting immunities (though they are definitely very nice if it's an early crowning). Though I think that they both aren't nearly that and would give them a category in-between gamebreakers and excellent. So would Protector.

Nature's companion is relatively weak for armor--you can find naturally occuring [0,16] dragon scale, for example, and, as immunities are fairly unimportant in my books (although it does have one of the better ones), it's hard for me to call it game-breaking even with a nice speed bonus. RoR, on the other hand, give excellent PV/DV, +5 To (that's 2-3 more PV and a big health bonus), which certainly puts it above NC in my books. I might consider dropping RoR down for all non-monk classes though. RoR are definitely game-breakers for monks since they get their DV bonus with them on IIRC. Protector ranked at excellent because there is a guaranteed shield in the game that is clearly superior, and even a decent eternium tower shield is basically comparable.

[Captain Platypus]

I love that we're getting more of these sorts of (semi) definitive rating threads. I'm almost considering adding them to the ADOM Wiki (with the authors' permission) when they're more complete, just for an easier way to access them than stickying a bunch of threads.

As for the rankings themselves, I'd take Kinslayer down to Good, simply because it doesn't deserve to be in the same category as Skullcrusher, and move Purifier up to Excellent - saying it's the same as Big Punch neglects that it slays three categories of creatures, grants luck, and weighs nearly 700s less. No comparison in my opinion.

[Silfir]

Don't really see why Kinslayer can't stay where it is. It has the decisive additional goodie: Humanoid slaying! It has 2-3 damage and [+7, +4] armor rating compared to +9 to-hit, the +4 Str and confusion resistance of Skullcrusher. When boosted with the Basher talents, Skullcrusher is definitely superior, but not by much.

And Kinslayer definitely doesn't deserve to be in the same category as crap like hammer of the gods or Bugbiter. Neither does Purifier, which definitely deserves to be listed alongside Skullcrusher at least - or Skullcrusher and Kinslayer demoted, since it's equally weaker than Big Punch. And then there's the luck and Willpower bonus (helps cross the gap for 32 Wi) too, plus the lower weight. Purifier is better than the Big Punch.

And Brannalbin's deserves a boost. It is significantly better than any other cloak in the game except Oman. The food consumption is a minor issue in an age of blessed stoma (and being crowned helps alleviate it, I guess a non-Atlas packrat would have the most trouble), and either way the occasions you want additional DV, PV and resistances are usually the same situations you want to be invisible for.

[JellySlayer]

And Kinslayer definitely doesn't deserve to be in the same category as crap like hammer of the gods or Bugbiter. Neither does Purifier, which definitely deserves to be listed alongside Skullcrusher at least - or Skullcrusher and Kinslayer demoted, since it's equally weaker than Big Punch. And then there's the luck and Willpower bonus (helps cross the gap for 32 Wi) too, plus the lower weight. Purifier is better than the Big Punch.

Thinking about it, I think it makes sense to lower Bugbiter to fair. Rangers are the only class to get it, I think, and they will be using a better weapon for most of the game as it is. Hammer of the gods I had put in good mainly as a missile weapon, but it could probably come down to fair as well. Purifier could probably move up, I guess. That doesn't leave much in the "good" category, though.

Maybe I will drop the worst of the good category into fair, and then dump the worst of the excellent category into good, leaving only the best of the excellent artifacts--Nature's Companion, Protector, etc. in that category.

This might take a bit of time to rework...

And Brannalbin's deserves a boost. It is significantly better than any other cloak in the game except Oman. The food consumption is a minor issue in an age of blessed stoma (and being crowned helps alleviate it, I guess a non-Atlas packrat would have the most trouble), and either way the occasions you want additional DV, PV and resistances are usually the same situations you want to be invisible for.

Crowning has no effect on food consumption due to invisibility AFAIK. It reduces the effect from artifacts, but invisibility is equivalent to wearing 12 artifacts while crowned, 6 uncrowned.

[Silfir]

I did say "help alleviate" not "remove" or anything like that, correct? All I was hinting at is that the same process that gets you Brannalbin's already improves the food consumption situation.

It boils down to the 3.25 additional consumption Brannalbin takes. In my book it's easy to stomach if you're on the Stomafillia diet plan out of boss fights, and during boss fights you will usually be unburdened - add, say, three more artifacts, and you get 4 additional food consumption for a 5 total. This gives you 300 turns at normal satiation, 100 more being satiated, and 800 turns if you fight bloated, without eating once. I'd consider that barely okay.

[DumbleDoor]

PV is much more important than DV. I interpret it that people say in the late game, DV is better than PV. Not true. PV is constant. Let us take pokemon. Would you rather get 1 defense or 1 avoid? How about any RPG? It is not hard. Anyway, I'd say bracers of war is probably the best artifact- 8dv, 4pv, some resistance, regen, bracer slot, good critical hits. Also, I don't really like invis cloaks, so no cloak of defense. Also, the cloak is bad because even though it is one of the best cloaks in the game, cloaks don't matter too much.

[pblack]

I'd just give 1 point for junk artifacts. I mean... +8 Dx from cat's claw might actually be good for a heavy missile bard or thief. Even perion's for smiths is good due to being undamageable. The missile artifacts are useful to kill vortexes if gotten in early game and purifier certainly doesn't deserve to be there because even a spellcaster like a priest can make good use of it.