Tone down the Animated Forest, somehow
issueid=1520 12-21-2012 07:45 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by SirTheta: 77
Tone down the Animated Forest, somehow
The Animated Forest might be one of the most tedious, fun-killing and generally frustrating places in the game. Tone down the generation of trees.

The Animated Forest is generally fine the first time you traverse it. When coming back, it gets quite bad, and after that it's basically untraversable [unless you have superhuman levels of patience]. It's really, really, really tedious and mostly results in people taking the DH (to surely hilarious results). The generation of trees should be toned down so that it is at least a viable alternative to DH.

(Well, really, a cap on the maximum number of trees, I guess. I think however many are present after about 1.5 trips currently [obviously that varies a lot, but shouldn't be too hard to figure out] is plenty)
Issue Details
Issue Number 1520
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Fixed
Priority 5 - Medium
Affected Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 7
Fixed Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 9
Milestone (none)
Users able to reproduce bug 7
Users unable to reproduce bug 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-21-2012 07:46 AM
Ancient Member
Woops, I meant for this to be an RFE. Guess that's not changeable now, is it?

12-21-2012 08:13 AM
Ancient Member
It's not too bad... If you can dual-wield shields without crashing the game.

I generally pick it over the DH.

12-21-2012 08:33 AM
Ancient Member
http://www.adom.de/adom/history.php3

Increased the number of animated trees in the animated forest.
That's a "recent" change, from 1.1.1. Obviously that means that there were less trees in earlier versions.

12-21-2012 08:35 AM
Ancient Member
Take all my votes! First trip is perfectly fine, but if you're going up or down it's just a complete nightmare. The new darkness behaviour and teleport costs will overall make it a little harder to deal with now too.

Two solutions:
1. Limit tree numbers to about 85% of the available space.
2. Increase the initial number of trees but stop all monster respawning on the level. Thus once you deforest they're gone forever, though obviously it would take a lot of effort to fully clear.

12-21-2012 08:37 AM
Ancient Member
Well, Silfir, you are rather famous for your careful gameplay ;) Most people I know (from IRC) pick DH over AF due to the tediousness.

12-21-2012 10:47 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
2. Increase the initial number of trees but stop all monster respawning on the level. Thus once you deforest they're gone forever, though obviously it would take a lot of effort to fully clear.
I like the basics of this idea, but not the end result - if you do clear the level, you'll now have a completely empty level within which it would be relatively easy to erect herb farms (assuming that the "herb generation only on levels already with herbs" bug is fixed).

Instead, I propose having the level operate as per normal, with regards to monster generation once the level has been generated, with new monsters being regular monsters appropriate to the DL. As such, if the number of animated trees falls below the critical value, regular monster generation begins. I would perhaps add Animated Trees to the list of monsters able to be generated on the level, though, in order to keep it from just becoming a completely ordinary level after clearing.

12-21-2012 05:29 PM
Member
How about making the forest attune to you after the first traverse, i.e. making every tree not hostile on repeated visits unless provoked (attacked, fire used in the forest, unholy aura corruption...)? Storywise this could be explained by the trees realising that you're not a danger after successfully navigating the forest without attacking a single tree. (This last condition would add an extra challenge, since most of the time I end up killing a few - then the trees would never accept you but you could still traverse the forest like we do now.)

12-21-2012 06:02 PM
Ancient Member
I do detect a tendency for the Animated Forest to slightly "fill up" on repeated visits increasing the likelihood to get stuck, so tree generation could stand to be reduced a bit. If it was considered too easy to get through before 1.1.1, maybe we can meet the old number halfway. Can anyone remember what the forest was like before the tree numbers were upped in 1.1.1?

12-22-2012 12:03 AM
Ancient Member
That wouldn't work, paivi: the problem isn't that the forest is dangerous, or that you're likely to get stuck surrounded by hostile trees (though those are certainly possibilities). The problem is the sheer number of trees. This means after about two trips, you're stuck waiting in place a lot for a space to open up, even if you're surrounded by entirely neutral trees. I think Grey propositions are probably the best (perhaps modified by Aielyn's).

01-04-2013 10:55 AM
Senior Member
I suggest to reduce the size of the level to half a screen. The two parts of the level shouldn't be connected (in order to prevent trees from eventually filling the whole level). There can be a teleport trap as well as a guaranteed ring of teleport control in order to be able to cross to the other part. In this way, the tedium is halved and there is something a little more interesting to do than just getting to the opposite corner of the room.

Moreover, providing a guaranteed means of teleport control at this point of the game can help to avoid the scumming some times you have to do with some characters in order to get a blink dog corpse.

01-08-2013 09:58 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
I like the basics of this idea, but not the end result - if you do clear the level, you'll now have a completely empty level within which it would be relatively easy to erect herb farms (assuming that the "herb generation only on levels already with herbs" bug is fixed).

Instead, I propose having the level operate as per normal, with regards to monster generation once the level has been generated, with new monsters being regular monsters appropriate to the DL. As such, if the number of animated trees falls below the critical value, regular monster generation begins. I would perhaps add Animated Trees to the list of monsters able to be generated on the level, though, in order to keep it from just becoming a completely ordinary level after clearing.
It can be made even simpler than that: Just inhibit herb growth on that level. Very simple, very easy. (Just need to add a flag to the levels, and have it set for this level.)

01-08-2013 10:05 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
I like the basics of this idea, but not the end result - if you do clear the level, you'll now have a completely empty level within which it would be relatively easy to erect herb farms
I don't think this is a real worry. If you want space to plant herbs, this is easy to achieve in any case; large pacified spaces are nothing special by themselves. You can plant in the ogre cave, dwarftown, etc. The big room makes a good herb farm because it's got many herbs to begin with.

01-08-2013 10:17 PM
Ancient Member
Even with all monsters cleared out, it would be a terrible herb farm level with the change to how herbs work [i.e. there is no reason to herb farm anymore, supposedly] and the fact that it is corrupting [although this is not a huge deal at this level, plus with the change to how herbs work, you don't have to spend much time gathering herbs].

Anyway, a cleared AF being used as a herb farm shouldn't be on your list of worries [if that is even the direction chosen], imo. Getting the big room boxed up is quite a bit easier and doesn't risk being killed in one hit.

01-09-2013 01:33 AM
Senior Member
Well, my main issue was that it was a huge, empty level if you cleared out the trees. As a main CoC level, this seemed boring to me.

Simply having ordinary monster generation occur after level creation is completed would ensure that the level is never truly pacified, that you still have to traverse it properly just like all other regular CoC levels.

Otherwise, the Dwarven Halls would become meaningless once you've cleared out the forest. In fact, I'd be tempted to suggest that post-creation monster generation should be set identically to the Dwarven Halls, so if you try to completely clear out the forest, it becomes just as dangerous as travelling via the Dwarven Halls... with the added danger of the level being completely open.

01-09-2013 05:56 AM
Ancient Member
Sure, I can see how an empty level would be kind of dumb, were that to be chosen (I will note here that that is but one suggestion), but you must also consider the very considerable risk in actually clearing the entire AF. That's an unbelievable amount of trees, and even with uber-<x> effect being potentially nerfed, trees are pretty dangerous. Having AF take on DH characteristics would defeat the whole point.

01-09-2013 08:01 PM
The Creator
The maximum number of monsters in the animated forest now should be about 85% of the available space.

01-27-2013 11:53 PM
Junior Member
is there anyway to make it so you can start a forest fire in the animated forest and have the chance of being burned alive or equipment being destroyed and what not

01-28-2013 12:09 AM
Senior Member
Start a separate RFE for it. :)

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