Allow to see the inventory during talent selection
issueid=3040 06-04-2014 03:27 PM
The Creator
Number of reported issues by adom-admin: 237
Allow to see the inventory during talent selection

A recent video review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn9moXBbD20) indicated that it would be very useful to be able to access the inventory screens when choosing talents. I wholeheartedly agree.
Issue Details
Issue Number 3040
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 2
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 23
Implemented Version ADOM r48
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 2
Votes against this feature 3
Assigned Users adom-admin
Tags (none)




06-05-2014 04:03 AM
Member
Huh. I'm not against this, but at the same time I've never felt the need to see my inventory at talent selection. This is probably because I have a general map in my head of what talent trees I want. What will everyone else be using this for?

06-05-2014 11:30 AM
Senior Member
I'm a little confused by the need for inventory also. But I would like to see which talents I already have--sometimes I forget which tree I'm working on between saves.

06-05-2014 12:19 PM
Senior Member
I'd be more interested in seeing my stats than my inventory. Seeing what talents you have already would be nice too

06-05-2014 12:31 PM
Ancient Member
If you check out the video James remarks that seeing your starting inventory would be useful when picking character creation traits. I think he has choosing weapon talents in mind at that point.

I think that's a fair suggestion - knowing your starting stats and inventory could potentially help pick traits. It actually should influence your choices but there are really only 3-4 traits worth picking up at start and none of them have much to do with your inventory.

This is why we need fresh player feedback. A veteran would never bother with weapon traits :) which also highlights some serious flaws in the trait system.

06-05-2014 12:38 PM
Ancient Member
Wouldn't it be better to just replace the talent selection window with talent points that can be subsequently assigned to selected talents at any point, not immediately?
Like, when you get to lvl 3, instead of a talent list, you get "You have received a new talent point. Press *foo* to display available talents and assign points to them."
After that you can finish the current dungeon level (UD:8 for example) and check HMV shop very soon after that, for items that might have an impact on determining what talents you might want to take, like longsword of devastation that might suggest picking the affinity with swords talent.
You can easily view not only your inventory but also all of your stats, skills and other talents before selecting a new one.
This way you don't have to make the decision right away and instead base it on more than a bunch of often un-ided items in inventory.

06-06-2014 01:47 AM
Really like the idea of talent points.

06-06-2014 01:56 AM
Member
Dude, that would be amazing if talents were pooled like that. I don't know if it is realistic or feasible, but I really like the idea. Of course, it's not exactly possible in DnD classic, and I could see someone making the argument that it is making the game unnecessarily easier for newbs. Being forced to choose at a specific point in time is ok with me. If talent pooling becomes a thing, I just know that it will start a new meta of saving your talents for the moments you need specific abilities, and that would be something I'm against. Yeah, I think I just convinced myself against talent points. Really, all I want is the ability to see my attribs/previous talents at selection time.

Regarding character creation: what does everyone think about being able to see your stats/inventory as creation moves along step by step? That would be pretty cool IMO. It would help make the game start seem less arcane and more of a gradual 'build a hero' process.

06-06-2014 10:24 AM
Junior Member
Call me old-fashioned, but I like the primitive way talents are given out right now. ..without knowing what I have, what my stats are, or even how many talents I get to choose at the very beginning. It puts on an interesting kind of pressure. Like: "I'll pick this talent, but then to I pick this follow-up talent? Or do I pick another level-one-only talent? Am I going to get a third?" "I like swords, but am I going to start with one, or do I have to hunt one out because that's the affinity I chose?"

It's like taking the risk to wear something that might be cursed. It looks like a really good item, so do you take the risk? These wee gambles are one of the things I enjoy about ADOM. ..Similarly I don't want talent-points to be bank-able. You get to pick them *now*! Choose now, regret later. :)

06-06-2014 10:59 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by tkoyah
Call me old-fashioned, but I like the primitive way talents are given out right now. ..without knowing what I have, what my stats are, or even how many talents I get to choose at the very beginning. It puts on an interesting kind of pressure. Like: "I'll pick this talent, but then to I pick this follow-up talent? Or do I pick another level-one-only talent? Am I going to get a third?" "I like swords, but am I going to start with one, or do I have to hunt one out because that's the affinity I chose?"

It's like taking the risk to wear something that might be cursed. It looks like a really good item, so do you take the risk? These wee gambles are one of the things I enjoy about ADOM. ..Similarly I don't want talent-points to be bank-able. You get to pick them *now*! Choose now, regret later. :)
This is true only for the first ~10 or so characters. After this, you know exactly what each talent does and what to expect from them.
You know precisely how each talent tree progresses and what is the final outcome, so you can plan ahead.
All that uncertainty is a thing for people that only just started playing the game.
For experienced players, it's just an inconvenience to have to select the talent right away, since its immediate benefits are negligible.
I'd rather pool up 2-3 points and get the whole line of talents (like the speed related ones or the carrying capacity increasing talents).

06-06-2014 01:02 PM
Senior Member
Talent points would be better, BUT it doesn't work for heir. Also, nothing else in ADOM works like that so it might be a lot of work.

I'd definitely like to see stats during talent selection too!

06-07-2014 09:50 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous
I'd rather pool up 2-3 points and get the whole line of talents (like the speed related ones or the carrying capacity increasing talents).
This sounds like the "Ability Points" of Silent Storm (an old WWII game with strong RPG influences ..now on Steam, BTW.) ..which could be cool if a graphical talents tree was included. It would look great whether or not pooling was allowed. (Can't find an english-language version of the game image, but the 'talents-tree' of Silent Storm is shown here.)

But otherwise, I don't hear a strong argument for a talent-pooling system. You say you'd rather pool up the points, but for your example there's no advantage in doing so. In fact, the player is better off grabbing the speed talents as soon as each point comes up, which can be done under the old system. ..And, in the case of Silent Storm, where a talents-pool system does exist, I generally see players spend each point as soon as they get them.

But the creator is wiser than me in these things. I just submit the Silent Storm image as a good pretty graphical way to implement a talents system. (I imagine it would look very cool in ADOM with the talented pixel-artist Thomas has.)

06-07-2014 12:48 PM
Ancient Member
I have recently discovered that it is more prudent to postpone taking speed talents.
That +9 speed eventually results in less experience gained in the early phase and without those talents you generally have more control on the penalizing factors in exp gaining.
Same goes for porter talents - they have a tendency to restrict your ability to use very strained status to train strength and also impact speed indirectly.
At the same time, at a certain point both talent lines become very useful and should be taken as soon as possible once the early game is over.
I have played a great many rpg games in my life and in almost every case where there are skill/ability points or something like that, I pool them to use later and instantly unlock a given line of talents/skills/abilities etc.
I tend to agree that ADoM has several talent lines that don't have much impact when taken one by one and rather truly shine once all are taken.

06-08-2014 02:52 AM
Junior Member
Interesting ..I hadn't considered the experience side of things. That's a fair enough point about saving-up the speed talent for later use. I often play weak characters, so I make use of the porter talents a lot - but just get more large rations than I need, and carry other readily disposable junk to keep me strained. :)

So, yeah, now that I think about it some more, it does sound like there is generally a good strategy to saving-up talent points. (Damn you and your logic.) ;)

06-08-2014 06:01 AM
Ancient Member
The +speed talents have a negligible effect on exp gain at early levels - levels are so close it makes very little difference. It's probably not even a level's difference by the time you're doing TOEF, by which time you'd have taken them under another system long ago. Remember that the effect is basically 92% experience you would normally get and that levels grow exponentially, sooo....

Also don't really buy the Porter thing - who takes them that early? and if they do, there's plenty of junk in the dungeon to bulk up if need be - I always wind up leaving stuff I could sell or eat behind at some point.

Giving talent points that can be pooled would cheapen talents, imo. Currently due to the fact that you have to take them with the level-up, they feel special (even if they aren't). I wouldn't like to transition to a Diablo 2-like system.

06-08-2014 09:33 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by SirTheta
Giving talent points that can be pooled would cheapen talents, imo. Currently due to the fact that you have to take them with the level-up, they feel special (even if they aren't). I wouldn't like to transition to a Diablo 2-like system.
I agree. The non-pooling talent system is fine IMHO. I see no real arguments for a pooling system.

Delaying speed talents to get more exp might be marginally useful, but it is just min-maxing that doesn't make sense thematically. Not the kind of thing I would like the game to incentivize.

Also, this would trigger situations like "damn, I'm going to die and I really need to flee, so I'm going to take all the speed talents RIGHT NOW". Yes, it adds a (marginal) strategic element, but at the cost of flushing immersion down the drain.

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