Simplify "walk explore"
issueid=4009 11-18-2015 04:34 PM
The Creator
Number of reported issues by adom-admin: 284
Simplify "walk explore"

Currently it uses w?

Which I only now noticed to be very complicated on US keyboards (and even on German keyboards two keypresses). Note: I need to play with a US keyboard.

I propose to use '-' (minus) as a short key for that.
Issue Details
Issue Number 4009
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 1 - Highest
Suggested Version ADOM r61 (v2.0.0)
Implemented Version ADOM r66 (v2.2.0)
Milestone Potential work pipeline
Votes for this feature 2
Votes against this feature 1
Assigned Users adom-admin
Tags (none)




11-18-2015 04:38 PM
Junior Member
On UK keyboards they're approximately as easy as each other, but if it matters elsewhere it's a worthy change.
The only concern I have over this RFE is that IIRC minus is also used for things like adjusting Tactics - so people might walk by accident in the middle of a fight.

11-18-2015 04:43 PM
Member
Personally, I don't use the explore command either way. But seeing as some people were making a fuss over having to press three keys ('w' then 'shift' then '/') on an American keyboard, I can see the reasoning behind the issue, and I like it. As far as the tactics go, I just use fn and f1-8 (the fn bit is because I use a laptop), so I, personally, am good on that. Voting up.

EDIT

in any case, on an American keyboard, ctrl t brings up tactics. So it still doesn't affect them.

11-18-2015 04:57 PM
Junior Member
I was more thinking about the fact that you use +/- to adjust the Tactics after bringing them up. If someone thinks they're doing so in a pitched fight and makes any kind of keystroke mistake in the process they're suddenly walking right at the enemy and getting clobbered: I just wonder if another keybind might be safer. Like the issue fix generally, though.

11-18-2015 04:57 PM
The Creator
Quote Originally Posted by Kelibath
On UK keyboards they're approximately as easy as each other, but if it matters elsewhere it's a worthy change.
The only concern I have over this RFE is that IIRC minus is also used for things like adjusting Tactics - so people might walk by accident in the middle of a fight.
Is any of the keys + or # accessible with one keypress on a UK keyboard? I today learned that I really don't know enough about foreign keyboard layouts and never took them into account for the ADOM keybindings. Maybe that's part of the keybinding problem.

11-18-2015 05:00 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
Is any of the keys + or # accessible with one keypress on a UK keyboard? I today learned that I really don't know enough about foreign keyboard layouts and never took them into account for the ADOM keybindings. Maybe that's part of the keybinding problem.
- is accessible with a single keypress, + requires SHIFT, and # is a single keypress. On my own laptop keyboard, anyway!

11-18-2015 05:11 PM
Junior Member
# requires shift on US keyboards though. + is accessible with one button on US keyboards with numpads (and I assume UK keyboards as well, but I don't know).

11-18-2015 05:16 PM
Junior Member
Ah, yes, on the numpad I have here in the UK, I can also access the following in the UK with one button-press (as well as numbers and Del/Home/etc functions): + - * /
Not all numpads are the same, though, and some boards don't have them. Though that makes ADOM tough to play anyway!
On the main keyboard I have single-key access to # and - which not all countries will have.

11-18-2015 05:25 PM
The Creator
And now we need to consider notebooks which don't have a keypad :-) Insights for them in the US and UK?

11-18-2015 05:30 PM
Junior Member
I guess that's what mouse control is for..
Seriously, though, when I was using a laptop keyboard without a numpad, I played ADOM on my PC.
When I was buying a new laptop for the first time I deliberately paid more for a numpad version -so I could play ADOM-.
I don't know if the issue is fixable but it definitely exists.

11-18-2015 06:47 PM
Junior Member
I used a custom .kbd file with the "vi keys" on my old laptop (my new one thankfully has a numpad!) but that's not the most user-friendly solution, especially since I had to remap the commands that were on H,J,K,L,Y,U,B, and N.

11-18-2015 07:46 PM
Ancient Member
I think minus is fine; accidentally hitting autoexplore shouldn't be the death of you in a fight since it will stop after 1 move (or not do anything at all if you're next to a monster), as I recall.

Quote Originally Posted by wheals
I used a custom .kbd file with the "vi keys" on my old laptop (my new one thankfully has a numpad!) but that's not the most user-friendly solution, especially since I had to remap the commands that were on H,J,K,L,Y,U,B, and N.
me too! :) it's my favorite way to play ADOM once I got used to it; everything's a lot easier to access.

11-18-2015 09:14 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
I don't think '-' would make situation much better.
By the way, switching between ADOM, DF and CataclysmDDA layouts isn't very simple especially from laptop. I don't think anything could save situation with layouts.

11-18-2015 09:22 PM
The Creator
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
I don't think '-' would make situation much better.
Why do you think so?

11-18-2015 09:51 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
Why do you think so?
If '-' is chosen as shortcut I would definetly be hitting it accidentially. Since I don't like explore command much I would start complaining :). '-' and '+' are keys are keys which I often hit therefore I would dedicade them for less severe action.

Probably suggestion justified for those who need to press 3 keys (at my laptop I have to, at PC I don't). But I would still pick key combination which requires 2 keypresses on US keyboard to make accidential triggering less possible. At least 'w-'.

11-18-2015 09:54 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
By the way I would check for other popular roguelikes. I don't know at least one with auto explare command (or I just never tried to look for it?). Keeping layout closer to popular roguelike keybings could help to adapt.

11-19-2015 09:02 AM
Junior Member
I think using '0' (zero) would be a reasonable solution (or even w0). It's going to be on the same place on virtually every keyboard, it doesn't currently seem to be bound to anything (do marked spells use it?). It works well for numpad players, and would probably work decently with vi keys if you used the zero on the number row. I think the key used by some other RL for autoexplore (Qud, maybe?)

Please keep the old w? in addition to any new binding though.

11-19-2015 10:03 AM
Ancient Member
As long as it's not hardcoded and can be changed to another key, I don't really mind.
My main problem with "-" is the same as ixi's - I would be hitting it accidentally.
Same for zero - anything on or around numeric keypad runs the risk of accidental use.
I think w? was good because it was sort of intuitive.
Question mark stands for something unknown and relates to exploration of undiscovered places quite well.
As for keypresses, ADOM is already quite dense in that department, I don't think changing w? to something else is going to really improve anything.

11-19-2015 10:30 AM
Junior Member
The main problem I have with w? is that it means excessive moving of my hands (UK keyboard). Ideally I want to rest my left hand over w and the left side of the keyboard and my right hand on the numpad. To use ? I have to move the right hand to the middle of the keyboard to press shift+/, then I have to move back to the numpad as I usually want to move after that. This creates a *lot* of back and forth, if it was a key that was near the numpad or near the the w key then I can leave hands in the same position for a significant amount of the game.

I don't much like '-' as it's used for tactics and navigating menus already. w0 would solve the problems of hitting it by accident (is this really a problem? It doesn't do anything if enemies are in sight and seems easy to cancel), and makes some sense given the rest of the w commands are on the numpad.

11-19-2015 10:46 AM
Ancient Member
I never felt like this was a big problem. I'm on US keyboard as well but I have always had big hands and long fingers so I could easily reach any key without really moving my hands around too much.

11-19-2015 01:46 PM
Ancient Member
"w~"?

"~" often means "approximate" so it's kind of like explore?
And at least on QWERTY those keys are close together.

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