I think in ones zeal to thwart exploitation devs can overlook destroying the fun of legitimate play as well.
The reason the change is bad because being randomly blessed by the RNG is a thrill. There's a reason it's called the random number generator and not the fixed number dictator. In the end, all this nerf did was remove my going "Oh, neat." when I discover a potion of exchange, and "Oh, cool!" if and when they land me a RODS (or PoGA if I choose to dip potions instead).
I think knowing that there is -no chance- is what kills the excitement; better would be the chance of one generating is a certain fraction (say, 80%) of previous (accumulative)? This would discourage scumming as your own success defeats you in the long run, whilst not ruling out the possibility of good fortune. I think such an idea would work well with scrolls/potions of ed as well.
It shouldn't be overlooked that it's not wishes but wish engines that are ridiculous. Wishes in reasonable rarity are fun and exciting to get, and being able to exert some minor control over obtaining them just gives me another outlet to compensate for when the rng fails to give me a much-needed item (I think this is one major sticking point of the game; I won't call it a flaw, but it's quite possible to get into a rut where there's few things left to tackle but also not enough resources to proceed without significant risks). It's the RNG wildcard. Which would you rather do (or as the game dev, see other players doing): spending a well-chosen wish, or farming monsters for a few hours? What if it went on into days?
Game changers? Things that alter your playstyle or plans for a certain ending? Sure, you can wish for those. Things that outright break the experience? At worst, only for a time and mainly in the early game. As great as wishes are, let's still not over-rate them.
Originally Posted by
Blasphemous
I'm sorry to say this but I think you're wrong on virtually all accounts here.
1) In a game as complex as adom, there will always be scummy techniques, no matter how hard you try to eliminate them. Without making the game linear and strategic drops fixed, there WILL BE scumming, period.
2) You need to define "boring", "exciting" and "enjoyment". I always say that each of those game aspects depends on the player and trying to find a common denominator for all of them is both wrong and impossible. It's a waste of effort. There is NO single definition for each of those 3 factors.
3) I don't mind herbs being weakened, as that makes potions of potential stats useful, with potions of potential toughness now a valid wish, that's a good thing. The fact is however that I spend as much time now as I ever did before on farming, more perhaps if I have gardening.
Why? Because I like it. It has tangible benefits. You don't like it - don't do it. But don't try to tell me what is boring or exciting to me, because you have no idea about that beyond the scope of your own characters. Don't apply your standards of enjoyment to other people's style of playing.
4) Define "challenging" and "interesting". I don't think having a panicking ancient chaos wyrm bolt you twice in a single turn and bring you from 190 HP to -20 is a "challenge" or an "exciting" feature. So, I will grind to have means that will protect me from that arbitrarily unfair death.
5) I only tried gremlin bombing once and that was it for me, it felt too much effort was put into establishing a gremlin contraption to generate loot. If there were players that did it and liked the process/effects - that's fine by me, let them do it. Nobody forced me to do it and I didn't mind when others did. It was changed though so what can I say? People seemed to recognize right away it was borderline cheating behavior, just like dipping 19 rings and getting 19 wishes. So the ring dipping has been changed to prevent that exploit.
But why the hell did it need any further changes? Why suddenly one dipped RoDS per character? I can't comprehend the idea behind this, it has no benefits, doesn't improve the game, it increases tedium, it encourages grinding.
I actually agree with both of you, in a way, except I don't agree with the conclusion that the current state is a good thing.
My form of fun largely consists of weighing my options. I think my enjoyment of an RPG is grounded in the ebb and flow of power, and figuring out how to work with what you have. Too much power can become boring and too little can become frustrating. It's about finding the sweet spot and never keeping it in one place.
I know some people tolerate grinding and some people actually enjoy it. I'm a little of both. I'll do something distasteful just to get the reward, without really enjoying it, but in short bursts grinding and scumming can be fun, particularly if it was a happy accident of me pursuing some other goal. If the game gives me another 'push' to not perform these distasteful tasks for too long, so much the better, but it should be subtle.
In the end I believe the game should be the 'dungeon master' and try and exert some control over my experience. One should be able to operate within the eco-system to maximize one's success-- one should be able to strive for victory with all their resourcefulness-- and trust the game to not
allow it to get boring while doing that, i.e. not put the burden on me to micromanage my fun levels by refraining from doing something that, in the aftermath, I realise wasn't all that much fun.
An ideal RPG, for me, is one that nudges me into what I consider the most fun way to play, without outright forcing it (and this hard rule of 1 wish-ring is definitely forcing it).