[BUG]Missing a karmic lizard still incurs the penalty
issueid=2508 12-01-2013 06:26 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Blasphemous: 110
[BUG]Missing a karmic lizard still incurs the penalty

The way I always believed it should be is that on a successful hit, there is a chance to lose luck/fate intrinsics and gain doom/curse intrinsics.
I have just discovered that if you swing your weapon and miss the lizard, penalty can still be applied.
This doesn't make sense as there was no contact with the lizard, just like there is no contact when hitting it with projectiles and in the latter case, you never get doom/curse or lose luck/fate smiles.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2508
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Windows 7
Status Fixed
Priority 5 - Medium
Affected Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 20
Fixed Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 21
Milestone (none)
Users able to reproduce bug 2
Users unable to reproduce bug 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

12-10-2013 09:32 AM
I always thought that it was the act of physically *attacking* the Karmic that made the effect happen, rather than *hitting* it. Therefore, I never thought this was a bug, so much as a feature. Now that you bring up that missiles work because there's no direct contact, though, it does make me wonder.

12-10-2013 07:20 PM
Ancient Member
Since karmic beings provide +luck and +fate by eating their corpses, obviously physical contact has to be made for it to work. When you miss them (which happens accidentally most of the time) you don't make the physical contact, hence there should be no penalty.
Let's not penalize players for failed intentions, please. Besides, physically attacking means you hit it with your weapon. No such thing happens when you miss it. It's probably why archers aren't subjected to the karmic nature of those beings - technically, their arrows/quarrels don't touch the archer when they hit the lizard, hence there is no 'bridge' to transfer the karmic retaliation.

12-10-2013 09:27 PM
Ancient Member
Physical contact or not, you came within striking distance. Karmic creatures might emit an aura that causes the luck effect, and melee attacks get close enough to the aura for the PC to be affected even if they miss. There's no actual evidence that the karmic effect is meant to only trigger on physical contact, after all; that's your supposition.

12-10-2013 10:13 PM
Ancient Member
My supposition is also that I can stand there without hitting and get hit instead by the lizard multiple times making obvious physical contact and getting close enough to emit a shitload of aura, perfectly within striking distance, yet I don't get affected by the karmic effects that way.
Besides there is nothing in the game about karmic aura, only vague message about karmic nature of a being and "this was not a good idea" that triggers when the monster is successfully hit.
At least when it's hit, I know that I need to check if I'm not doomed since I have received the message. But when you miss and the karmic effect is applied, you have no idea that you might have become doomed.
Something here doesn't make sense. It's clear to me that this is a bug and it's not a supposition.

03-13-2014 06:16 PM
Ancient Member
I want to bump this bug report as I have just lost a very promising monk because of it.
I opened a tension room in DD and a grey lizard was right next to it.
After trying to hit it and missing, I got the message that "it was a bad idea" as it turned out to be a karmic lizard.
Despite not actually hitting it, I got cursed and could not subsequently pray to get healed when I needed that. I was killed.
This is a very annoying bug that I hope will be fixed in pre21.

03-13-2014 06:56 PM
Ancient Member
It is not because of missing it in melee that your character had worse karma though, it is because your character attacked it in melee.

E: From their monster memory it is a defense of theirs. So, if you attack, they defend.

03-13-2014 07:09 PM
Ancient Member
I agree w/ Blasph - I think the current behavior is kind of dumb. Successful contact should be what causes the karmic counterattack, not missing.

03-14-2014 09:51 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
It is not because of missing it in melee that your character had worse karma though, it is because your character attacked it in melee.
E: From their monster memory it is a defense of theirs. So, if you attack, they defend.
How's it different from archer attacking it with missiles from the same distance - adjacent tile - and not getting karmic penalty?
How's that different from wizard using burning hands on it or point-blank magic bolt and not getting karmic penalty?

If it's a defense of theirs, they should react the same way to the above two situations and not just to melee.
Mentioned two situations are direct attacks just like melee.
It's clearly inconsistent. It's clearly a bug.

When you consider the above two cases, those are the only methods to deal with karmic beings right now if you want to avoid the luck/ill fate consequences, at least without companions/taming with music.
So those cannot be changed, the only option is to also change missing attacking them in melee to achieve consistent behavior.

04-03-2014 09:16 PM
The Creator
Missing in melee now doesn't deliver bad karma.

04-04-2014 12:33 AM
Ancient Member
That is excellent news, thank you :)

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