Raising Stat Potentials with Herbs Still Possible
issueid=1681 01-08-2013 04:41 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by JellySlayer: 114
Raising Stat Potentials with Herbs Still Possible
You can raise stat + potentials in 1.2.0pre7 using herbs using the following method:

-Raise your To/Dx/Wi with herbs to 1 point below potential maximum, say, 11 (12 max).
-Eat/use a very large pile of morgia roots/moss. 20 minimum, I would recommend.
-Wait a large number of turns. Your To/Wi/Dx will increase as normal. If you are lucky you should have enough leftover training to raise your potential as well. Now you are at 12 (13). Repeat as necessary.

Basically, if you significantly overtrain a stat, you can still get potential increases from the overflow through herbs even though you can't get potential increases normally.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1681
Issue Type Bug
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Fixed
Priority 1 - Highest
Affected Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 8
Fixed Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 21
Milestone (none)
Users able to reproduce bug 4
Users unable to reproduce bug 1
Attachments 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




04-26-2013 07:53 AM
Ancient Member
I think the priority on this should be higher. 2-3. So intended difficulty can be tested properly during the prereleases.
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11-06-2013 03:44 PM
Senior Member
Increase is not guaranteed due to large amount of training needed to increase potential now. I'd say that chance of success is about ~50-70%, and you need ~20-30 herbs to do it. Comparable to normal ~6 herbs per training with close to 100% success rate i'd say that this is balanced.
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11-06-2013 04:10 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by asdf
Increase is not guaranteed due to large amount of training needed to increase potential now. I'd say that chance of success is about ~50-70%, and you need ~20-30 herbs to do it. Comparable to normal ~6 herbs per training with close to 100% success rate i'd say that this is balanced.
Who cares about number of herbs when you can farm as many herbs as you want?

This only means that scummers will need to spend more time scumming, but if you are guaranteed to get an elf to trollish levels of To (even if it takes a long time), this is an exploit in my book and should be fixed.
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11-06-2013 04:18 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Al-Khwarizmi
Who cares about number of herbs when you can farm as many herbs as you want?

This only means that scummers will need to spend more time scumming, but if you are guaranteed to get an elf to trollish levels of To (even if it takes a long time), this is an exploit in my book and should be fixed.
You have only 50-70% chance to increase potential. It means that you could get 13/14 > 14/14 > 14/15 one time, maybe 14/15 > 15/15 > 15/16, but eventually you will be stuck with 15/16 > 16/16 > no increase. On average it will give 2-3 points above your initial potential before getting stuck.
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11-06-2013 04:29 PM
Ancient Member
To and Dx are easy to abuse. If you get stuck at 16/16, take off your armor, go stand next to a Wight in berserk mode for a few turns until you get stat drained. Then you can keep going. Dx you can use encumbrance to the same effect. HPcasting will abuse both Wi and To IIRC.

[edit]Currently, of course, there are far easier ways to train potentials by exploiting items and potions. Hopefully this will be fixed at some point soon.
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11-06-2013 05:15 PM
Ancient Member
But potions of stat and potions of potential stat are finite resources (well, barring a lot of pickpocketing scumming, at least - I still think pickpocketing needs to be thoroughly rethought), so I think it's fine that they raise stats and potentials. Herbs are more unbalancing because you can farm as many as you like.
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11-06-2013 05:34 PM
Ancient Member
Just to be clear, by exploiting potions and items, I mean you can do this:

Suppose your To is 14/14. Equip bracers of Toughness {+4}. Now your score reads 18/18. Drink a potion of potential toughness. Now your score reads 18/20. Remove the bracers. Your score is now 14/20. Increase to 20/20 with herbs and repeat. This is a far more serious exploit of the potential system than the herb problem (I believe there is a bug report on this somewhere).

[edit]This bug is all the more severe because it's quite easy for it to happen unintentionally.
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11-06-2013 05:35 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
Just to be clear, by exploiting potions and items, I mean you can do this:

Suppose your To is 14/14. Equip bracers of Toughness {+4}. Now your score reads 18/18. Drink a potion of potential toughness. Now your score reads 18/20. Remove the bracers. Your score is 14/20. Increase to 20/20 with herbs and repeat. This is a far more serious exploit of the potential system than the herb problem (I believe there is a bug report on this somewhere).
And you don't even need finite potions to do the job, gold to Garth, herbs, wight corpses, whatever will do the job just fine.

Here is the first of several reports.
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11-06-2013 05:47 PM
Ancient Member
Oh, OK, sorry. I had seen that but I didn't remember it.

Then I agree with you, that exploit is even more important than this one.
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11-06-2013 06:47 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by asdf
You have only 50-70% chance to increase potential. It means that you could get 13/14 > 14/14 > 14/15 one time, maybe 14/15 > 15/15 > 15/16, but eventually you will be stuck with 15/16 > 16/16 > no increase. On average it will give 2-3 points above your initial potential before getting stuck.
Yes, this is in line with what I have observed from attempting this exploit in pr14.
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11-07-2013 09:42 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
And you don't even need finite potions to do the job, gold to Garth, herbs, wight corpses, whatever will do the job just fine.
Just wanted to chime in - corpses, the only truly magical thing from the aforementioned list (you are absorbing their power I guess)
in fact stop working completely as soon as you reach stat potential. Which completely screws the information about increasing stats stated in the manual. I was sure there was an RFE/bug report about changing that, but I can't seem to find it.
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11-07-2013 09:50 AM
Ancient Member
Yes, I have compiled a list of things that should and should not raise potentials somewhere on this forum. I will see if I can locate it later. Basically, magical sources should always raise it up to a certain point and non-magical methods should be very difficult, but still possible.

I think some of the logical proposals will be rejected by this community though, a difficult late game is frowned upon.
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01-22-2014 08:04 PM
The Creator
I seem to remember fixing this in some prior version but can't find the issue for it. The code indicates that this no longer can happen.
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01-22-2014 08:10 PM
Ancient Member
Isn't it related to similar increases for training with Garth a lot? I seem to remember getting multiple stat (and/or potential) increases after giving him a LOT of gold, maybe the same thing happens if you eat 30-40 morgia roots.
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01-24-2014 06:32 AM
Senior Member
This behavior was changed in a prior version.

In p20, you can still increase potential score sometimes by overtraining with herbs when the score is 14/15. I have the impression that this is much easier with dex than with morgia. Training with Garth works to raise potential even when you're at max (e.g. 15/15), which is very useful for mist elves. I'm not sure if that's intended or not.
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