Tone down Maze rewards slightly
issueid=3945 10-21-2015 06:07 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by JellySlayer: 114
Tone down Maze rewards slightly

In an earlier RFE, the rewards from the Minotaur Maze were boosted because as of 1.1.1, the Minotaur Axe was... okay, but not really ever worth the trip. The Maze rewards now included a buffed up axe, an additional random artifact, multiple PoGA and PoCC, and a huge potential-breaking St and To boost from the Emperor corpse (for a small amount of corruption that can be immediately treated by the aforementioned PoCC). In a recent win, I worked out that well more than half of that character's stat gains came solely from the Maze. Plus there's a couple spellbooks, I think. This is a little over-the-top, IMHO, as clearing the Maze basically catapults characters to obscene power levels and makes the endgame really trivial. I do think that the rewards ought to be better than 1.1.1, but I think they can be scaled back a bit from their current state.

Honestly, I think the buffed axe, which is now more or less the best weapon in the game outside maybe the ToTRR and Justifier, is probably sufficient to attract players to give the Maze a try, but just scaling back a few of those things would be fine. I'd suggest removing the stat-boosters: Drop the PoGA and make corpse respect potentials, or still have it break potentials but maybe +3 St/To instead of +6/+6. If we wanted to go a bit further, I'd suggest dropping the random artifact as well. That would still make this a pretty excellent quest reward, far better than pretty much anything else available ingame, but not as spectacularly game-breaking as the present situation.
Issue Details
Issue Number 3945
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 3
Suggested Version ADOM r61
Implemented Version ADOM r62 (v2.0.1)
Milestone Potential work pipeline
Votes for this feature 10
Votes against this feature 9
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




10-21-2015 07:05 AM
Ancient Member
I agree, mino maze currently makes 2nd half of the game trivial. Also perhaps the corruption gained from the corpse could be boosted?

10-21-2015 09:45 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Seconded. Having only one good reward in the maze already makes it worth to visit. It's too much OP now.

10-21-2015 11:30 AM
Member
I agree that the current rewards are excessive. I'd change the corpse effects to some random stat gains and the potions dropped to random high quality potions and increase the background corruption. I thought about suggesting a more randomized layout of the maze itself and disallowing teleportation and things like that, but that would just add frustration and boredom.

10-21-2015 12:55 PM
Senior Member
Definitely yes. The Maze is a disaster, a very, very unfunny location that either requires A LOT of scrolls of magic mapping or some real life hours of very, VERY boring stroll through the false levels. Tension points are facing mages (and maybe mazelords/kings if you aren't particularly strong) and the emperor, the rest is a horrible gaming experience that you still want to go through because the rewards are immensely powerful.

The mid game is defined by the greater vault in FGJC and the minotaur maze. If you get a favorable type of the former and get through the latter, you won the game, standard gate closing at least.

10-21-2015 01:03 PM
Senior Member
In an earlier RFE, the rewards from the Minotaur Maze were boosted because as of 1.1.1, the Minotaur Axe was... okay, but not really ever worth the trip. The Maze rewards now included a buffed up axe, an additional random artifact, multiple PoGA and PoCC, and a huge potential-breaking St and To boost from the Emperor corpse (for a small amount of corruption that can be immediately treated by the aforementioned PoCC). In a recent win, I worked out that well more than half of that character's stat gains came solely from the Maze. Plus there's a couple spellbooks, I think. This is a little over-the-top, IMHO, as clearing the Maze basically catapults characters to obscene power levels and makes the endgame really trivial. I do think that the rewards ought to be better than 1.1.1, but I think they can be scaled back a bit from their current state.
Agreed.

Honestly, I think the buffed axe, which is now more or less the best weapon in the game outside maybe the ToTRR and Justifier,
I'd definitely place it in the same tier as those artifacts. Before it was great when well-specialized in two-handers, now it's great right off of the bat.

is probably sufficient to attract players to give the Maze a try, but just scaling back a few of those things would be fine. I'd suggest removing the stat-boosters: Drop the PoGA
I'd lower it to 1d2.

and make corpse respect potentials,
NO, NO, NO.

Enough of that shit. After eating Keriax corpse and getting bugger all stats I never want to see that happen with a corrupting corpse again.

or still have it break potentials but maybe +3 St/To instead of +6/+6.
Seems fair.

If we wanted to go a bit further, I'd suggest dropping the random artifact as well. That would still make this a pretty excellent quest reward, far better than pretty much anything else available ingame, but not as spectacularly game-breaking as the present situation.
Drop the random artifact, I agree. Random artifacts almost aren't random anymore, with the guarranteed greater vaults + mino emperor.

10-21-2015 11:20 PM
Ancient Member
I can agree with removing PoGA and the random artifact. Spellbooks kinda fail to make sense for me but they are random so you might as well get slow poison, magic bolt and bless.

However, please do not touch the corpse effects on PCs.
I will agree with increased corruption from eating it but it should continue to ignore potentials as it does now.
That way I can make up a bit for the stats lost to mino mages.
They don't seem to have any trouble at all draining multiple points of St and To in a single turn so why shouldn't the PC have the advantage of eating mino emp and regaining them?
Besides, right now the corpse is a reward but with the proposed change I will rarely bother eating it, if at all.

I withhold my vote until the corpse eating effects are addressed, the other nerfs sound fair to me.

10-22-2015 06:31 PM
Senior Member
Just gonna throw out some more ideas:

Agree the artifact seems a bit much. I'd be fine leaving the corpse as-is and simply removing the PoCC (especially since you can get more from the Ice Queen... too much corruption cure now IMO). I think less PoGA would be better than none, or maybe 1-2 potions of random +stat. Maybe it'd be worth moving some of the drops to the minotaur mage guardians... most of the time I kill 1 of them then snipe the emperor and leave the rest of the mages without ever aggro-ing them.

10-28-2015 08:28 PM
Senior Member
I'd rather the axe were toned down
I liek the idea that random artifacts are slightly stronger than guaranteed ones. Otherwise, there's no excitement to finding them. 'Oh, it's justifier! That will be fun for a few levels until I have my axe' just isn't the same.

10-29-2015 04:24 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by sylph
I'd rather the axe were toned down
I liek the idea that random artifacts are slightly stronger than guaranteed ones. Otherwise, there's no excitement to finding them. 'Oh, it's justifier! That will be fun for a few levels until I have my axe' just isn't the same.
I think many of the items are too good compared to others in the same group and they are quite common also. This makes loads of items obsolete as some common items dominate and others are used only for a very short in the very early game or never.

For example spears in general (partially weapon skill issue), certain crystal shields (weight difference is not an issue at all) etc.

This could be corrected using my earlier suggestion: limit weapon skills by class (maximum level 8, 10 or anything as agreed). This makes sense in all ways imo. Why should a wizard, master of magic be as good in melee fighting as the mightiest warrior on ancardia?

We need more permanent variety (not counterable by more time, grinding skills or stat potions etc.) in classes, races, stats and item usage. I cannot see this as a bad idea.

11-15-2015 03:56 PM
Member
I'd rather see the maze buffed (while simultaneously having its tedium reduced) than see the reward nerfed. Get rid of the fake levels, make controlled teleports impossible, make all forms of magic mapping fail (the spell, the scroll, crystals of knowledge), buff the monsters inside. It gets rid of teleport/MM cheese, it means you actually have to traverse the maze, but it also means that you're doing this max for 6 levels.

11-17-2015 08:17 PM
Junior Member
I'd like to vote to keep the PoCCs in the maze - there are few enough guaranteed out there to begin with and an AWFUL LOT of potion destruction. PoCCs and the equivalent scrolls are exceptionally easy to lose; a couple more duplicates isn't necessarily a bad thing. If we're going to remove one, perhaps it should be the new one from the Ice Queen instead.

11-17-2015 08:54 PM
The Creator
I have applied several changes. Should be better now.

11-19-2015 02:46 AM
Ancient Member
hope you didn't go overboard

11-19-2015 04:46 PM
Junior Member
Any hint on what changed? ;D

11-19-2015 05:00 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Kelibath
Any hint on what changed? ;D
This is the most interesting part of implemented RFEs - you have to wait until release, get the game, come down there and find out yourself ;) It's Ancient Domains of Mystery :D :D :D

11-19-2015 05:53 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
This is the most interesting part of implemented RFEs - you have to wait until release, get the game, come down there and find out yourself ;) It's Ancient Domains of Mystery :D :D :D
Aw, fiiine. :P
Seriously though, that's fine by me. Already playing again to find out.

11-22-2015 09:53 AM
Ancient Member
I hate it when the response is so vague.
All it takes is one person to find out what the change was, update wiki and voila.
I would much prefer to be told about the changes right away, there is no point keeping it so obscure.
No consultation with people that are affected by the changes has led to this RFE in the first place.
If there was some poll about what changes would be the best, people would vote and a general consensus reached.
Instead Thomas engages in shoot & miss strategy and I bet in a few days/weeks/months there will be another thread related to mino maze rewards.

11-22-2015 10:40 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous
I bet in a few days/weeks/months there will be another thread related to mino maze rewards.
Even if you're right these two months won't be wasted neither by devs nor by problems. + Two months should be pretty enough to test it out. E.g. if PoCCs were removed ones might starting complaining right away. But now they and a lot of other less quick players have a chance to test it themselves and to the game itself, not to just a message describing the changes.

12-20-2015 08:40 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous
[...]
All it takes is one person to find out what the change was, update wiki and voila[...].

12-20-2015 08:50 PM
Senior Member
Corpse now respects potentials. Dislike.

Also, Keriax still sucks in the same way despite multiple RFEs to no dissent.

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