I agree with this suggestion. With the pickpocket skill itself being harder to use, and, apparently, significantly more marks required to enter the guild than before (see 1697), I think that the current behaviour is a little extreme. Related: 1795 and 1464 (this one was supposedly implemented, but other changes have increased the difficulty overall).

Yes, according to 1464 it was reduced. I have been pickpocketing for membership in my last three games and I agree it should be a chore, but still in its reduced state as it is now it still brinks on driving one mad. Maybe I'm just getting soft.

It is currently +5 for successful stealing and +1 for nothing of value, while needing 100 to be a member of a guild (pre10).

Reducing requirement to 30 seems perfectly fine, given how tedious and annoying pickpocketing currently is (seriously, Thiefs with 100 skill could easily fail it 5 times a row on mere goblin).

I don't know about pickpocketing on high skill levels since I only pickpocket to get Yergius training, but would having the pickpocket skill level count towards the marks be a good solution for the quest? So with 100 pickpocket you wouldn't actually have to pickpocket anyone.

It takes ages to get it to 100, a wild guess from me is maybe only at xl 20 for the average character that uses it all the time, but it is very hot here so my guestimate might be totally out.

Ideally one wants Detect traps sorted prior to the Pyramid.

Yeah, but if you had the skill at 30, you would need to pickpocket 30% less. That's what I'm after.

Edit: So if you normally need to make 20 successful steals (according to asdf), with skill level 40 you would only need to make 12 successful steals.

I vote yes. On the prereleases I don't even bother to get detect traps. It's just too much grinding for my taste.

A good solution IMHO would be making unsuccessful attempts not count at all (you haven't really stolen anything, after all), but make 3 or 4 successful attempts be enough.

Oh ok, I see what you mean. What I do like about your suggestion is that it would give easier access to races and classes that are in theory already trained thieves, eg. Gnomes, merchants and thieves.

Your guesstimate is off by a lot. By the time one's character gets to Dwarftown and back out, you probably already met 100 safely pickpocketable monsters and if not, well, there's the infinite dungeon right next to the thieves guild, go and grind some.

The problem with the thieves guild entry procedure is not "it takes so long to get in", as delaying access to Detect Traps might very well be the point, the problem is tedious pickpocketing. I think that it would be best if it wasn't possible to retry. Then success rates could be upped back and tedium would be removed with only a little concession on the part of game balance (which could be counteracted anyway if necessary, by e.g. disabling shield and weapon DV/PV bonuses while pickpocketing) and simulation.

I've made simular RFE ( http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2384 ), it got downvoted by Vengeful Guardians of Tedious and Annoying, because -
Now the same Guardians are starting this RFE to limit Tedious and Annoying in the same skill, just to use it to their purpose.
I find this quite amusing, to be honest.

Have you heard the term, "change of mind". I had one of those, it amused me too. I was laughing at myself yesterday when reading those posts you qouted.

The tests I conducted just prior to your RFE, concluded for me then that, yes it was work, but acceptable. That was then and this is now. After you mentioned it takes 100 successes, 30 is maybe too low. I have always maintained that the amount should be reduced. Back then I was a grinder, I have changed my ways since.

P.S. I did not discredit your suggestions in that RFE. I just checked, I haven't even voted on it yet. I think some of the ideas in it is very neat. My responses there was merely relating to the point of view on theft count from a grinder.

P.P.S. It related to access to the thieves' guild, which this RFE relates to. I will be editing my post in your RFE.

P.P.P.S. In that same post I said I liked your suggestions? Besides I was not trying to guard tedious practices, I was giving you solutions to make it less tedious, the least you could do is thank me.
I went through all the effort of especially creating two characters to test pick pocketing( which I despise doing ) for the benefit of others, not to try and be vengeful or annoying or what the fuck ever cute names you think up.

P.P.P.P.S. I did not attempt to insult you when you used some of my ideas in your RFE, so why do that here in my RFE. What ever did I do to you?

@zasvid I was referring to getting the skill to 100, not the theft counter.

This is just standing meme in IRC chat about Vengeful Guardians of Tedious and Annoying, who downvote everything which could help the player and upvote everything which will somehow limit him, because game is "too easy", nothing personal or offensive intended, sorry for that

Ok, don't make assumptions about me. All my ideas lately are directed at keeping the game fun and fair and not tedious. Yet, I do not think it is a good thing for players to waltz through it either. e: That would be just plain boring.

So, Annoying Guardian of Balance is appropriate. ;)

Adjusted. See http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2384